ThomasPowers Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Most parents I know teach their kids to drive on an old "beater car"; rather than a brand new one. Same holds true for anvils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 About the 88# anvil, it depends. What do you plan to forge. A friend and I forged a few 3lb hammer heads on my 130#anvil. A good 88# anvil can work for a lot of things. It would be a good investment in a tool to Use. It is an easier size to move. I use a ~90# for my demo forge setup. It really depends on what you want to make. Do you have the money to spend on it? Do you still need other tools that that money could be better spent on to get you started? It really doesn't take a lot to get started. Knowledge is the best tool to get started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I'm a HUGE fan of Soderfors anvils and 88lbs is only a little light. A good stand to keep in in place and it's big enough to do a lot for you. My main go to anvil is a 125lb. Soderfors on a steel tripod stand. As suggested an improvised anvil not only makes a perfectly serviceable anvil, it doesn't hurt so much if you beat it to raggedy scrap. When you miss a blow on a Soderfors it WILL mark the hammer, make flat spots. Miss on an edge can chip it and you're standing close enough for a chip to hit you like a raggedy bullet. The crack sound you heard wasn't the chip breaking out it was the chip breaking the sound barrier. It won't stay going that fast far but you are standing within that distance. I recommend a leather apron as armor and HOT debris protection. Don't make the mistake of thinking "London pattern" anvils are THE real anvil, they aren't, they're only one of I don't know how many shapes. Probably the most common anvil shape is a short cube or rectangular shape on a spike. Traditional Japanese bladesmiths most often use a small cubic stake anvil. I don't think I'd recommend getting the Soderfors unless you can get it for a really good price. I think you'll do better making things on an improvised anvil while you keep your eyes open for something you like better. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarkley94 Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 Daswulf- I want to start on trinkets and move up to knife making. My end goal is axes. Always been into chopping trees and after my girlfriend bought me a Gransforsbruks I've been wanting to smith axes. So slow and steady into it. I do have a budget of a grand total for everything. So with this anvil I'll still have plenty for a propane forge and basic tools. Frosty- I appreciate the feedback. What I might do is start on the current damaged anvil and get the Soderfors for when I'm a little better at the trade. It's in good shape so I want to jump on it while I can. Do you have any recommendations for a beginner hammer? Brand, size, and type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Spending that much on an anvil when an improvised one will do nearly as well; which belt grinder are you buying to make axes with? The grinder is more important than the anvil in producing great work---at least till your smithing gets to where little grinding is needed on a finished forged piece! As for hammers; I started with a commercial single jack about 2 pounds to 1 kilo. Bought it at a fleamarket used for US$1 and it was my primary hammer for the first 20 years of smithing I did. Getting a hammer well dressed is more important that getting a fancy hammer. Don't fall for the fallacy that more expensive tools will make you a better smith. I know a lot of smiths who can use a rock as a hammer and another as an anvil and still do better work that most beginners could do with a US$2000 anvil and $200 hammer! Some suggestions: don't get too heavy a hammer to start off with! (Remember that kinetic energy is 1/2 Mass x Velocity^2 so swinging faster will help more than swinging heavier! With practice you can bump up both and really go to town.) Also adjust the hammer handle to fit your hand, a too large or too small of a handle can make you hold it too tight which can give you blacksmiths elbow. I now use a straight peen hammer with a large---looks like 1" round on the peen and a lynch collection hammer that is much lighter that I use for a lot of my lighter stuff. 1500 gm hammer for heavy work or if I have a helper a 6# or 8# sledge with a short handle. 40 years of smithing now and my original hammer still going strong on it's 4th? handle. You can actually see where the scale is wearing the face over the decades. And Yes the Sodefors are top of the line anvils! I don't have one; but my Trenton, Peter Wrights, Powell, Hay Buddens, Arm and Hammer and Fisher anvils are sufficient for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Any smooth faced hammer under 2 lbs. is a good place to start, I start guys on a 2lb. drill hammer, they have a shorter handle which makes them easier to control but enough weight to move metal well. As Thomas says, expensive tools can't make you good, that's for knowledge and practice. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 My brother wanted me to forge him a granforsbruks style splitting axe/maul. I told him at $175. Theirs was a great deal, and they have the experience and warranty to back their product up. Lol. I know he wanted something I made but the truth was that I didn't have the experience, I'd have had to make the tools and go through many hours and possible failures to make him something close to theirs when #1 they already have the process down, and #2, I just didn't have time to go through all that when I'm not trying to get into making those at the moment. Now, if that is something you want to get into making there's nothing wrong with it and by all means aspire to it. You can do it. That's why we do this. I just wasn't ready to get into all that for a one off with the limited time I have and all the other things I have in mind to make. Starting off small is good. Build your skills and move up then build those skills. Make the tools to make the tools to make.... whatever it is you were making I think you're on the right path and you have plenty of great advise from the others here. Now is time to research and learn how and why to shape the faces of your hammer, good hammer control technique, Safety, good anvil heigth for You, shop setup (like the blacksmith triangle, forge, anvil, and vise), and a whole world of other info that is good to help you get started and the stuff that maybe your just interested in. It's all here for the learning. Then set up your space and take that info and put it to practice. See what works for you and what doesn't and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarkley94 Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 Thomas, Frosty, Daswulf- thanks for the advice guys! I'm sure this won't be the last I ask of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 About the 88 pound Soderfors, it is a little light like others have said. However when I started out in the early '80s, I picked up a new anvil that was made in Russia (predates the HF ASO anvils), a cast iron base with a steel welded on face, that weighed 55 pounds. I mounted it on a piece of RR tie and over the next several years I made a lot of stuff on it like S hooks, leaves, tent stakes/pegs, dragons and bottle openers out of horse shoes and a lot of knife blanks. I still use it as a traveling anvil to go to club meetings and hammer in's. I eventually found a 110 pound Vulcan in good shape and since then a 106 pound Hay Budden. Here is a picture of that anvil. BTW: In all that time I used a 2 1/2 pound cross peen hammer I inherited from my grandfather (which has had several replacement handles) and a 24 ounce ball peen I picked up at a yard sale for $1.00 U.S. Since then my wife and I have added about 30 hammers to the collection and guess which ones I use the most. My wife likes the fancy French pattern hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Another good tip for hammers is to sand down any paint or coating on the handle, I found it gives me way more grip if I hold clean wood instead of the painted wood (no idea why they keep doing that to hammer handles) Also, dont squeeze the life out of it, its like a bird in your hand, to loose and it will fly away, to tight and you have something to throw on the bbq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I agree with that, just about every hammer we have is fit to our hands and sanded smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarkley94 Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 I appreciate the info guys. I might just buy a cheap cross peen off of Amazon to get me started. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 If there are any yard, garage, moving, etc. sales going on hit them instead. You see good hammers for $1 or so all the time sometimes for free or part of a bundle if the handle is broken. I'm a huge fan of slab handles made from 5/4 clear hickory lumber. I pick it up at a specialty hardwood lumber supplier, he caters to cabinet makers but knows a number of the blacksmiths in the area by name and knows what to show us. SWEET. I was seriously bummed when he retired and sold everything. Fortunately I still have about 5' from my last visit. Anyway, I taper them slightly wider from the head to the end. Being flat and smooth they're easy to hold between thumb and the second joint of my index finger. It can pivot pretty freely between the web and my finger tips, I don't actually "grip" it. There is no shock transfer to my hand, any impact recoil simply pivots the hammer till my finger tips catch it. It also adds a 4th joint to my hammer swing increasing the power in my whip crack swing. The knob on the end was in case the hammer slipped, it'd help keep it from getting away. Turns out if the slight taper starts to slip my reflexes tighten my grip till it stops moving. The knob is on the pattern so it's now a mark of my handles. I sand them smooth, warm them up uncomfortable to hold and wax the with Trewax carnuba paste wax. Being good and warm makes the wax soak in and when I wipe the excess off they're almost like holding bare wood. I LIKES EM. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarkley94 Posted February 24, 2021 Author Share Posted February 24, 2021 Frosty- that looks great. My favorite axes always have a wide taper at the end. I guess I need to figure out handle making and setting while I'm at it. I'll keep that in mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 I wouldn't make a bunch like that one until you see if you like it. Use the first one a while months anyway and adjust it to fit your hand. I enjoy doing demos and approach demos like theater. Folks pay closer attention stick around longer and remember more if the show is entertaining so I maintain a patter describing what I'm doing and why when not answering questions. As part of the flash I change sides face to pein or back by spinning the hammer while it's over head. Some hammers I can feel which way they're facing by the balance, the face side is heavier than the pein on ball peins and cross peins so I don't need to look to go straight to striking the work. However some of my hammers are pretty well balanced, the rounding hammer shown is the most balanced. When I made the handle I rounded the edges of the pein side more than the face side, It's just visible in the pic. It's easily felt without effecting my grip and lets me do the flashy over my head twirl and awe the audience. I've discovered I like the feel and have been finishing my handles that way as I get to it. It's not a suggestion, not really but if you find you're having trouble keeping which side of the hammer is facing the work it may help. I recommend you just break the edges and use your hammer for a while before making modifications. I had a special reason or I wouldn't have. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarkley94 Posted February 24, 2021 Author Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) Few more questions. I'm looking at two anvils right now. One is a 109# Peter Wright that is a little rusty. I don't mind restoring. The other is Soderfers 88# in pretty good condition. Both are within $150 of each other. The P.W. has a shoulder on the edge of the face. Is this indicative of damage or just a normal characteristic of the anvil? Lastly, which would you recommend? I don't mind the cost in either. Edited February 25, 2021 by Mod30 Resize photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 They are close enough in weight that the condition and the cost are the main factors: "Don't worry about the cost" then the Sodefors wins hands down with EXCELLENT condition. I would not pay US$4/# for a PW with that bad of edges; was it used for cold shoeing? (Small anvils with lots of edge damage were often used for cold shoeing...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 I would take the Soderfors any day of the week. Even if it were the more expensive of the 2. She's a beauty. The PW is probably usable, but the edge damage and pitting from the rust is pretty severe. I would say overall the condition of the PW would be poor.. at best. The Soderfors is in excellent shape. If you're within driving distance, you should go check it out in person and do a rebound test to make sure she's still as hard as she should be. Even if you're a little outside of driving distance it's worth the trip. I drove 10 hours to pick up my Soderfors. Well worth the drive since I hended up with a choice between several anvils and came back with a bunch of unexpected tools (unbeknownst to me when I left, I was driving to a blacksmithing goldmine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 What they said. If it's between the two go for the soderfors. The other is in poor shape. Usable but not for that kind of price and with another better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Well I'd call that PW "fair" rather than "poor". Still lots of sweet spot to forge on and no broken off horn or heel---but it's definitely more a US$2 anvil than top end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 Fair enough then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarkley94 Posted February 25, 2021 Author Share Posted February 25, 2021 Thanks guys. I'm hoping to land the Soderfors. Only anvil for sale I've found in actual good condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 On 2/23/2021 at 4:05 PM, tmarkley94 said: cheap cross peen off of Amazon If you prefer to go the bought new route. I got a Fiskars 3 pound (11" handle) hammer a while ago that I liked while I was using it. I prefer wood over fiberglass/composite handles, but I didn't mind this one. 3 pounds is a little heavy starting out, but you could go at it with an angle grinder and shave off a pound or so turning it into a square face with nice rounded edges (I like the square face so you can use the edges like a cross peen) . Regardless, an anvil is a chunk of steel that preferably stays put and doesn't deform while you're beating on it. A hammer is just a smaller chunk of steel on a stick. So whatever you go with will probably work just fine for you. Good luck with that Soderfors. I'm sure she'll be great if you're able to get her. If not, no worries, something will pop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatLiner Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 You can't go wrong with a Swedish anvil. I love my Soderfors. It moves steel like a heavier anvil. I can't explain why but everyone who has tried it makes similar comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmarkley94 Posted February 25, 2021 Author Share Posted February 25, 2021 Frazer- I may get a Picard cross peen. It's around $44 and looks solid. I believe a 2 pounder. Flatliner- I believe I have the anvil locked down. Going for PU Saturday. Beyond excited for it. After using my Gransforsbruks forest axe I'm beyond confident in the Swedes ability with forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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