jlpservicesinc

Flat twist Blacksmith basket..

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Today I dug out my old journal and started looking for unique handles based on basket type construction.. 

I had done a flat basket years ago and forgot just how tough it can be.. I figured I'd do a "how to" video on it but really think it might be to tough for most..  

Anyhow, I filmed it but it took nearly 2hrs to get his done..  I am thinking a mandrel would be the next step as this would speed up the process and remove 90% of the difficulty with it.. 

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That's an absolutely lurvly handle!  If you get the mandrel made, it'd probably be best to do the video showing both ways.

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Oooh, I'm looking forward to the video! I'm thinking some decorative piercing would be spectacular. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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On 3/5/2019 at 9:24 PM, HojPoj said:

That's an absolutely lurvly handle!  If you get the mandrel made, it'd probably be best to do the video showing both ways.

Thanks feels really great in the hand..  The free form method I won't be processing in a "How to"..  It would be an intermediate smiths or jouneyman's  type of skill set implementation.. It looks really simple but if you have done a few basket twists handles it will show why 99% of them use round or square..  i think the expression is converging angle.. 

I really don't think it's teachable in a video..   The mandrel method might work as a teachable skill set so will let you know tomorrow.. Today I went and got steel was all tired out by the time I got home.. besides its 18F in the shop.. brrrrrr.. 

On 3/5/2019 at 10:05 PM, Frosty said:

Oooh, I'm looking forward to the video! I'm thinking some decorative piercing would be spectacular. 

Right on Frosty..   The piercing was going to be on the list then I decided to put it off till I can show this as a teachable "How to" in an efficient manner.  

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Oh yeah, putting fancy on it isn't  for starts. I'd like to see what you have in mind for a mandrel and how you'd work it.

I like the T handled wedge tool for truing up basket twists and am wondering if you use one? I can't find the drawing and hope someone here has a copy they can post.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I don't use a tool for truing up usually..  With the flat twist I have a special pair of tongs.. Basically a scroll tong with 90 jaws to pull the face of it back to plane.. But usually can get away with just using a hot chisel for wire spacing..  

Love to see the wedge tool.. 

Not sure if you have seen the video " How to forge a basket for those that have inconsistent forge welds)..  That video covers how I deal with distortion in the basket.. 

I found years ago the fault that I always made consistently was to over twist bundle.. I've found when this happens the rods can not resist the push on the shaft forwards and collapse more than they should, this creates a few problems 1 of which moves the rods out of plane and this creates a S vs a smooth transition from shank to finial.. 

Here are a few that I have done over the last few years.  Guess which ones I like.. :) 

 

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I saw the video where you twisted and opened the basket several times but wasn't sure what the cause and effects were.

By over twisting, are you talking about from the straight bars or opening the basket back up?  Opening the twist is the only place I've noticed any "pushing" going on making basket twists. 

The basket tweaker resembles a plunge dagger. The long flat wedge allows you to adjust spacing at any point on the basket and acts nicely as a gauge to keep things consistent. The T handle makes it easy to twist or pry. 

I just spent long enough to give myself a headache looking for a pic of it but no joy. 

Jer

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I really like that flat twist, I can see using something like that for 

a candle holder or a lamp lots different ideas, I watch and like your

videos I take away a lot of info. thanks

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Frosty,,  the reason why was to close the basket back up because I did not like the shape.. took 3 times before I found the shape I liked..

The initial twist... Opening up the basket can control to a limited extent how it opens..         While opening the basket you can push or pull depending on what you want.

The wedge tool you mentioned is used the same way the hot chisel is.. Does the same thing with gauging..   Bummer.. I can picture it now though so thanks for that..

The S  how I would refer to the twist as being over done.. When this happens and you push on the shaft to open it.. Those twists get pushed into an S shape.. Picture 2 and 3 on the poker show this S of the over twist/ push.. Pic 1, 2 shovel and flat are the shape I look for.. There is no S..


MurphyD..    First off.. Thanks..  second there are a lot of easier ways to get the result for candle holders. a pierced steel works well..


The easiest way to explain it in a way that can make sense is take a flat say 1/8" thick X 1/2" wide and 7 or 8" long..    Now while it's hot push down on it and create a coil the hard way or edge to edge with no way to get to one side,,  do this times 4 or 5 all opposite and keep them all stacked up with a taper on the top and bottom..  LOL..  There are easier ways.. :) 

Thanks on the videos.. Happy to help and really appreciate you letting me know you watch them and get something from them..  I really do appreciate it..

Welcome to IFI also.. Glad you found the site..  Best Jennifer


PS If I can get the results to be acheiveable I will make the "how to" I have it figured out all ready but it might not be a beginner video..

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Well today I gave it another go..   I don't think this could ever be a beginner video.. Intermediate maybe.. but for sure its a tough one.. 

Was cold in the shop this morning 18F and it felt like 10F..   The first part  of forging and welding this comes off pretty easy and things line up like eggs in a carton.. Was pretty nearly perfect.. Even the finial came out well enough.. 

After that it just gets tough..  I know how to do it now perfectly but there is so much fiddle faddle  I can't see doing it except for a special something or other..  This would make a great demonstration topic..  But as a how to.. iffy.. 

I'm not sure I will make it into a video.. For 1 handle it was 2hrs ..   If I wasn't just using anvil, hammer, forge, vise it could be easily done with a mig welder with modern magic.. But It is tough the old way.. 

I am particularly happy with how short the inside of the handle is at the finial end.. 

This would make a great step by step video though..  Not exactly the format I like to do. 

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Hi Frosty  I made this tool, for adjusting cages etc as mentioned,  made to use some 40 plus years ago as a temporary try this item, maybe one day I'll get round to refining it and doing a proper one, or maybe not , what ain't broke, don't need fixing., It's an idea, run with it.

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Also useful for opening split bars and adjusting in  many other situations.

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I have an old wide bladed screw driver I used, your handle would make it much easier to use. 

What I was referring to though was arrow head shaped and flat. From what the maker said it worked from tiny springs & coils to heavy baskets and coils. I never made one myself or I'd upload a pic I don't do that many baskets, etc. but I sure recognized a handy looking tool.

Jennifer's recent basket twist posts triggered the memory.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Arrow shape is a better idea for universal use, May get round to making my Mark two version (sometime).

She also opened up some memories for me too, amazing what gets filed to the back of your mind when you get on a bit.

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11 minutes ago, John B said:

amazing what gets filed to the back of your mind when you get on a bit.

Truer words were never . . . recalled? :blink:

If you think just having crowded memories loses stuff you do NOT want to find out what scrambling them with a tree does to your filing system.

Frosty The Lucky.

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So another attempt.. It looks so nice till I have to weld the shank on.. Then kapooey..  This will be the last 1 I do for awhile.. they just take to long..  

Someone could do one in maybe 15 minutes using a mig welded and some flat stock and mandrel but doing it the old fashion only way is tough.. 

Up till the shaft of the tool gets welded on its really pretty awesome looking.. Feels really amazing to..  

Now just saying about not doing another one for awhile put a quick thought into my head..   I've been doing the finial first.. Hum.. 

 

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The round finial looks like it would be the most comfortable. They all look nice, and tough to make lol. 

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Das, the finials are plenty small enough and the handles long enough,  not to be in the way..  Thanks 
Yes, they are for me..  todays was 2hrs but worked a little more methodical.. 

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They not only look great they look comfortable. Most basket twist tools I've held weren't. I shouldn't say most but many weren't very comfortable after a few moments of adjusting logs etc.

As usual good job jlpservices. I'm going to watch the video later today. I'm looking forward to it.          

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Those handles look so comfortable, Jennifer. I've done quite a lot of the bar twisted ones now, but even when you put a tight twist in they are not as smooth on the hands as yours would be. I would really like to try one of those flat twists. Am I allowed to use the MIG??? 

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I'm all about traditional tools and methods where ever possible and for myself, making this type of handle with the traditional means in a way that was manageable was the goal..

Using modern tools and electric or gas welding really would make this complex item as simple as can be..

With gas or electric welding it would take what nearly took me 2 hours to do and make it a 20min deal..

Not one part of this would need be heated to be completed..   

I was contacted by a guy who owns a basket making machine and he said it takes longer loading the bars (up to 12) than it does to make the basket.. 

It is just such a tough one to do with traditional methods I really wanted to see if I could pull it off in a way that would work for most and make a great " how to"

I learned a bunch doing these but with traditional methods they are not a beginners project.. even an intermediate who has good welding skills would have a 50/50 chance. mild steel is tough.. wrought would make it so much easier..

There are some truly unique things that happen with the compound curves that never even occurred to me..  like not being able to use tie wire because as you tighten the wire the basket opens up..  or how to tighten the radius without changing the plane of the flats..

So the basket and shaft were lap welded..  How do you keep (4) 1/8×5/16x 1/2" flats together enough to reach welding heat and a 3/8" sq bar at welding heat, pull them out, stick them together and get a good weld at the same time.. lol..

I did it on all the examples but how do you make it simple enough where others can do it consistently..  ( all of the (how to's) will give consistent results)..

Lol  arc weld it..  lol..

What ever method you choose is ok with me. You might find you really enjoy making it..

I'm sure it will be wonderful.. looking forwards to your results..

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Oh man, these are great. I’ve been looking for something to obsess about and help wean myself off Rams head pokers.  They are beyond me yet, but would love to see the video- are you on the YouTube as jlpservicesinc? Or do I need Netflix?:)

 

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