Chuckbuckeye Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I Reid to make a hardy hot cut today our of a huge bolt I found . Didn’t end badly but I got a lot of work to do. But I had a problem with it wanting to bend in one direction as I as upsetting it . I tried to work it back and forth but it would barely move even when it was yellow . Any suggestions for my next attempt ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Whats your heat source. May need a few rotations in the forge. If one side is a little hotter, deeper than the other it moves easier. guess the other thing might be are you moving around the anvil while striking? Tend to pull or push a little on the strike and by moving around it tends to average out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckbuckeye Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 I’m using a break rotor forge and coal. I did try and move around the anvil and stoke in different directions trying to fix it but it ended up almost buckeling on me so I let it cool and stopped on it for the day . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Do NOT try pulling or pushing the hammer to correct the bend! Straighten the bend as soon as you see it, if you wait till it's bad you end up drawing the stock back down. Preshape the bolt where you want it upset by forging (or grinding) a bevel around the edge so it looks like the hammer end of a chisel. This preshape allows you to strike the stock in the center ONLY. If the stock is flat it takes a lot of hammer control to strike flat and straight down through the center. It also directs the hammer energy through the center of the stock so the edges won't mushroom. The stock in your pictures is beginning to mushroom meaning the steel is spreading along the surface rather than thickening through out. This is the motion you want in heading a rivet for, not a hardy. The results you want is bulging below the end of the stock, chubbing up so to speak. Make sense? Preform the stock. Heat to yellow, return to the fire when it cools to high orange. Make sure you let it soak so it's hot all the way through! Straighten it AS SOON as it STARTS to bend. If you catch it soon enough you can straighten over the anvil's edge and it'll bend straight reasonably easily. Do NOT straighten ON the anvil face or you'll draw it back out thinner rather than straighten it. Make sense? Do rotate the stock on the anvil face. That doesn't mean YOU should move around the anvil nor does it mean you should move the stock around the anvil face. Keep the stock in the SAME PLACE but rotate it. Visualize the motion like screwing a bolt in. This will allow error to cancel out. If it doesn't work don't sweat it, it's called upsetting for a good reason and it's one of the most difficult processes you get to learn how to do. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I just want to know how long it takes Mr. Heater to get your workpiece to forging temperatures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckbuckeye Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 Oh geez I don’t remember . 30-45 min I had the forge going good for a bit and had it sitting next to the fire . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hephaestus Smith Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 23 hours ago, Frosty said: Preshape the bolt where you want it upset by forging (or grinding) a bevel around the edge so it looks like the hammer end of a chisel. This preshape allows you to strike the stock in the center ONLY. If the stock is flat it takes a lot of hammer control to strike flat and straight down through the center. It also directs the hammer energy through the center of the stock so the edges won't mushroom. so obvious but i never thought of that during uppsetting, great tip i will definitely use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckbuckeye Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 That’s a great idea and your right very obvious ! Wish I would have known ! Lol now I just have to cut and grind a cutting edge on it now . I will use this tip next time for sure ! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Why not forge it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 53 minutes ago, Glenn said: Why not forge it? I don't know Glenn, maybe he's not upset enough to want to take his rage out on it? Lots of this stuff is obvious once someone points it out to you, surely you don't think I figured this out myself do you? It's been discussed here a few times in the past. I'm just passing it along, please do the same. A couple more things I remembered about this type upsetting. By this type I mean upsetting more deeply into the stock as opposed to heading a rivet, nail, etc. For upsetting back from the end use a heavy hammer and slower blows. For heading use a light hammer and snappy blows. The other thing chamfering the end does or so I heard and makes sense is. The button gets driven into the center of the bar, making it swell from the center out. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Good Morning, Forge the flat part into a short taper. Straighten up your piece. If you have more heat below where you are hitting the top of the short taper, you will upset lower down. If you heat the part closest to the shank and hit the short taper, you will upset at the hilt. If you are using a 2 lbs. Hammer, you will get upset before your material will move. Large material means heavier Hammer. Control, control, control!!! If it doesn't get hot enough where you want it to be upset, it won't upset!! Patience, grasshopper. Think before you do!! Make it with Play-Doh or Clay, FIRST!!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 A forge is just a tool, like any other tool, only more versatile. When you have a a forge and a hammer, you can make many things in the time it takes to go to town and back. Plus it is a custom item that is many times over designed, over built, and works. Form the hot cut the way you want it to work, single bevel, double bevel, etc. Use it then make a second one even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Remember that a long piece will want to bend before it wants to upset, so you will need to constantly straighten your workpiece as you go. Keep in mind that you want the workpiece to be softest at the point you want it to upset. For a hardy tool, that means you want the base to be hotter (and therefore softer) than the tip. This can be accomplished by either putting the workpiece in the fire bottom first or by giving the tip a very quick quench to cool it down a bit (being careful not to overquench, harden, and crack it). As noted above, chamfering the edges of the struck face will help concentrate the force to the center of the workpiece. Remember the words of Rowan Taylor: "When it comes to upsetting, think about midget supermodels: short and hot." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 This is one of those tasks where a solid fuel forge helps as you can localize the heat easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckbuckeye Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 Thank you gentlemen ! While I would love to throw it back in the forge I’m a bit worried I went too far . I get a pic in the am . I bent it over pretty good in frustration. Thank you for all the help you guys are awesome! So much smarter for my next go at it ! Thank you all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 If you can bend metal into a circle, you can also straighten it out. We do it with coil springs all the time. Just let it soak to heat it all the way through and then work the metal. Reread Frosty's post on working metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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