Stump problems as an Anvil

[Strike]

I recently picked up a decent sized stump to use as an 'anvil' and have run into a problem. I was working a piece of 90 degree  1/8" x 1" x 5" shiny mystery steel in my jabod forge (without air pump, that comes tomorrow) and was able to straighten it on my stump with no problems (except crazy lungblowing, cherry red) and when I went to form the profile it just kept driving itself into the wood. I was gonna work on something that resembles a knife...that's my problem and I don't know where to go next. Tomorrow when I get my air hooked up and it get's even hotter I anticipate that it will penetrate the stump even more thus I am stuck until I solve this. Anybody got a cheap $ solution? I do not know what kind of wood it is but it is HARD but a bit moist.

 

oh yeah, I was also beating on a largish 6 inch bolt... thanks for your time ladies and gentlemen.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Strike
Need to show you the steel i was working.

[JustAnotherViking]

Your 'anvil' needs to be harder than the metal you are trying to shape.

Try a big flat rock instead of a wooden stump, or better yet, a sledge hammer head.

 

Have a read at this for further ideas:

 

[Strike]

Hey justanotherviking, I had considered that my stump was softer than the metal but I REALLY appreciate the link, i'm still trying to figure out this site ; only a few weeks in. Thank you.

[stevomiller]

Stumps only work for straightening stock like you have or forming dishes etc in sheet type metal, not for changing cross sections of stock. Other wise hot iron is still WAY harder than wood, plus it will burn into the wood,meaning the wood will always win.

As stated use a solidly mounted sledgehammer head, or heavy chunk of steel. Look in this sub forum at High Tech Anvils andthe Improvised Anvil threads for ideas. If you use a rock make sure it’s solid without flaws and wear a face shield with safety glasses, because if you chooose poorly you can have a rock missiles coming your way.

Have fun, be safe, and save your stump to mount your “anvil” . 

[Daswulf]

When I was a kid me and my brothers could be destructive buggers at times. I remember many times being down at a creek or river and if we weren't hunting for crayfish or whatever we were throwing rocks at other rocks to try to break them. IF you aren't sure of what rocks are what you have a couple options. 1, you have a world of information at your fingertips. Research on the web to learn what is what. 2, take some safety glasses and gloves and be a kid again and see what rocks are tough and which ones aren't by hitting them together. Easy enough, right? 

Have any neighbors? Ask around if any of them have an old sledgehammer or large chunk of steel you can have or you could do some chores to trade for. You could ask your parents to ask their friends if any of them have a sledgehammer or steel block.

Asking around will usually fetch you something you could use. 

The stump just won't work as an anvil the way you are trying. 

[Al Stephens]

Strike, take some time and find a local blacksmith group near you. Try ABANA.org for a start. The experience of others will be a great help to you. Good luck, be safe. Al

[Charles R. Stevens]

Strike, we do use stumps to form bowls and spoons but as others have commented you need somthing harder and a bit more heat resistant.

 

[John in Oly, WA]

As has been said, the stump is for mounting your anvil on. As has also been shown, there are many things (almost all of them metal) that can be used for an anvil. And from where you are at the moment, just about any piece of metal is going to be better than the stump.

So, ASK AROUND, ASK EVERYBODY YOU KNOW, and even people you don't know (Look up on this site the TPAAAT method). Someone will have a piece of metal suitable for an anvil. And you might get lucky and find someone that actually has an anvil. I found my 80lb Trenton anvil this way, and I got it for FREE. They're out there! Got any scrap yards in your area? Junkyards?

[FlatLiner]

If your willing to try and forge on granite go to your local headstones/monument shop and ask if they have any old broken monument bases preferably in black granite (last year we threw away over 12 tons of old broken stones). The solid black is usually basalt. It has a lot of iron and magnesium in it. In fact it rings when you hit it with a hammer. You can also stick a thin fridge magnet to the polished side. Just like a hardened anvil you don't want to strike the edge with your hammer as it will flake but if you keep hot steel between the edge and your hammer you'll be fine. Here are some pics of one I might take home as a post anvil.

 

 

 

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[MC Hammer]

Go to Harbor Freight and get a cheap $50 anvil.  They are junk, but much harder than wood.  You'll at least move metal with it.  Heck, even a piece of concrete would be better than wood.  I wouldn't mess with stones.  Yes, historically they were used, but you have many more options than they did back then.  For what you'd pay for a granite scrap you could have an Anvil Shaped Object (ASO) of some kind or other.  I commend your zeal to move metal, and the stump was all you could get, but there are better alternatives if you look around.

[FlatLiner]

We give granite scraps away for free lol. That is cheeper then paying to throw them away. By the way you would be amazed by the rebound you get off granite.

[Daswulf]

Other than free Granite, ( I have used it as an anvil and it Works!) A cheap/free sledgehammer head or other chunk of steel is still better than Paying $50. For an inferior anvil shaped piece of spongey metal. 

Besides the op mentioned a Low Cost solution. Paying $50. For spongey cast iron isn't it. No offense intended MC. 

 

[ThomasPowers]

My scrap yard was selling me up to  80# chunks of STEEL for 20 cents a pound ( US$16 for 80#)  WAY better than spending $50 on a cast iron ASO! (and I have owned a cast iron ASO.)

[MC Hammer]

10 hours ago, Daswulf said:

No offense intended MC. 

No offense taken Das.  Here I thought $50 was cheap .  Believe me, I never recommend ASO's, but this guy is trying to forge on a wooden stump   I agree with Thomas, a chunk of steel from the scrap yard would be better than a HF anvil, but it didn't seem to me the OP was really willing to look that hard so that's why I suggested the HF anvil.  Minimal effort there to get one and far better than a wooden stump.

 

10 hours ago, FlatLiner said:

We give granite scraps away for free lol

That's super awesome!  I make stone axes and didn't realize they were given away.  I'll have to stop in to a few around here and inquire about the scraps.  Free is better, so if he can get a large piece of granite for nothing but his time maybe he should try that.  I would just suggest he round all the corners to minimize chipping on the edges.  

[FlatLiner]

Yes, if you have to use granite put a good pencil radius grind on the edges and it will keep the chipping and spalling down.

[ThomasPowers]

MC; going for the ground stone rather than the chipped?  I've seen some very nice diorite ones in museums...

We all have different cost/benefit ratios; US$50 is two weeks allowance for me. Also I'm hoping to train the new folks to go out and find stuff on their own rather than encourage them in "bad habits".  I notice my students tend to have a lack in the ability to go out and see how items can be used in different ways, a core skill for smithing in my opinion as we are modifying steel with forge and hammer to do other things.

[FlatLiner]

For those who missed the my pics that got taken down because of "advertising". Here are some that prove that there are stones that have so much iron content that a random fridge magnet will stick to them. They are hard enough to mushroom and damage hardend sledge hammer heads that are used to break these "soft" stones to pieces. Mushroom tool steel drill bits once the carbide wears out on them. These stones are plenty hard to forge on. If you have no other option they will do just fine untill you get anouther better option.

[Daswulf]

 One thing I noticed when forging on a chunk of granite was to keep the workpiece up to temp. The chunk I used was rough broken on the edges, one with cleaner and radiused edges would work better. But unless its just light planishing or correcting it's "better" to keep the steel hot. 

Flatliner, I have to chuckle and say I like "Random fridge magnet" lol. Thanks for sharing about the iron content in some granite, very interesting. 

 

[MC Hammer]

6 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

MC; going for the ground stone rather than the chipped? 

Thomas, I love make ground stone axes as well as chipping arrowheads.  I made a 3 foot plus celt (think hatche) out of a piece of scrape granite counter top someone gave me.  It's really popular at shows.

 

6 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

We all have different cost/benefit ratios; US$50 is two weeks allowance for me

I hear you Thomas, it's almost 5 months allowance for me.  I only get $15 a month for personal spending.  I'm not complaining though, I remember when it was $0 a month.  It takes a loooooooong time to save.  In fact, my favorite junk shop guy sees me coming and says "So, got your $15 this month I see.  You know Mike, I have a $5 minimum in my shop."  It's why I love the scrap yard so much.  It seemed like the original OP didn't seem like he was willing to go to a scrap yard so that's why I suggested the HF anvil.  Normally I wouldn't, especially if a person is willing to be a scrap yard rat like me.

[Strike]

thanks guys. I keep getting warned by moderators for this or that. First was cussing and I corrected it. Second was the stump thing that I put in the anvil forum, then after the rock recommendation I started another thread in what I thought was a more appropriate area like the "help me and we'll try to help you" kinda forum. Dude said I was spamming. So I'm a bit frustrated not only at the shoddy search engine on this site but more than that the strict placement of my questions. I know to shut my mouth until I have searched heavily, but agree or disagree I think these moderators are just a bit impatient, they could warn me instead of giving me penalty points which will eventually boot me. Oh well, just gonna keep reading this convoluted site because other than moderators, I respect and appreciate everything all of you have done for me.

 

[MC Hammer]

Strike - be patient and stick with it here.  We've all been moderated at one point or another, it happens.  Try not to let it get to you.  Most here want to see you succeed in your blacksmithing endeavor.  When I search, I put "iforgeiron" and then the thing I want to search for in Google.  This will solve your problem with the search engine. 

One thing to keep in mind is that this is a family friendly forum so they are rightfully tough on bad language.  I got moderated for using a common word for your backside that starts with a "b" and ends with a "t" (I think that is really "G" rated I hope).   I just let it roll off my back.  I'm a guest here in the end and I have to abide by their wishes on keeping it as clean as we can.  There's just so much information here it would be a shame for you to not tap into it over some moderation.  Stick around Strike! 

[Buzzkill]

Hang in there, Strike.  The mods are just trying to maintain an organized G rated site while fighting spammers, dealing with software "upgrades" and working full time jobs.  You won't get any argument about the ineffectiveness of the native search engine on the forum, which is why we recommend using a web search and including "iforgeiron" in the search term.  The mods won't boot you as long as you remain civil and appear to be trying to stay within the terms of service.   In fact you really have to try to get banned, but there are some things, like dropping f bombs that will initiate the ban hammer rapidly. 

We know there's an overwhelming amount of info to sort through on here and not all of it is intuitively sorted for people new to the forum, but if you need some help getting pointed to the right areas just ask and we'll do what we can to help out.

[Strike]

MC Hammer and Buzzkill - thanks for the words of encouragement. I worked all day In the pouring rain handspreading shredded mulch and before I even showered I checked this site and my email to get diminished by a site that I TRULY am into. Thanks again, I was about to go find another of the other forging sites...but I will stick around because I DO believe this site WILL make me what I want to become.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Have you read this thread? It will help getting the best out of the forum and it's quirks.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/

 

[Daswulf]

No worries Strike. Moderators do have a tough job that I wouldn't want. Glenn maintains a site that Everyone even small children can read and learn from. Cussing and politics do not help learn how to forge, and that's the main goal. 

I've had a few run ins as well early off. What you say in your shop and house is your buisness, but Glenn keeps it clean here. 

They have been trying to keep the site more organized so do your best with placement and don't worry if it gets moved. All of us here want you to succeed. Also what They said about searching...