So everybody im finally getting into the tool making portion of this amazing hobby and wanted to show my guillotine tool I am almost finished with 

 

Hah, love the railroad spikes.  Looks like it will work fine. 

Nice ingenuity.  You may find that you need additional spikes or other straps to keep the top dies well aligned with the bottom dies in use though.

Use what ya got if it works for what you are making!

Yeah buzz, its not quite finished I do not know it im going to need to weld on a bottom plate to help protect my anvil what do y'all think?

It might depend a bit on your anvil and how often and heavily you will use it.   I don't have a bottom plate on my guillotine tool, so the bottom die rests on the anvil top plate.  However, I don't use it that often and when I do it's usually with moderate force.  For dies I'm using pieces of leaf spring that have been heated up to orange-ish temperature for straightening, but have had no other heat treatment.  The impact surface on the top dies have deformed/mushroomed a little in use, but I have not seen any damage or deformation on the surface of my Peter Wright anvil. YMMV.

Mine is a trenton anvil it has pretty good rebound approximately 80 or 90 percent, and probably not very much my intention is the mostly use it for some cuting ones I make some hot cut dies, and for lengthening forge welded billets and other stuff that is just to thick to efficiently hand hammer 

As using tooling like that tends to cut down on the efficiency of your hammering I think you will find it less effective than lengthening a billet with a good cross or straight peen---one with a very shallow curve.  See about grinding or forging a hand sledge to about the same curve as the base of the horn of your anvil and hammer your billet between the two matching curves; working it on the flat to even it up on a regular basis.

Thomas, how could it cut down on efficiency if I'm going to be using a set of dies that are shaped like a cross,pein?

It's likely that you'll spend more time getting stuff lined up, as well as the attendant losses in adding more parts for the hammer energy to transfer through to get to the work. 

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that my logic was that the guillotine tool would help more because even if I loose some force, I'd be able to make up for it due to less bad hammer strikes.

In my limited experience with my guillotine tool I have to agree with Thomas and Hoj.  They are great for setting shoulders, starting fullers, etc., but would not be great for drawing out stock.  One of the reasons is that it takes a little time to get the stock in the tool and get it lined up where you want it.  If you were trying to draw out billets that way you'd have to constantly lift the top die and reposition your stock for the next strike.  For me at least I'll get a lot more drawing out done using a radius edge on the anvil and a cross or straight pein hammer.  I usually favor the straight pein for drawing out.  Also, as mentioned, the more pieces between your hammer and the anvil, the more energy from your strikes is lost, so you're not getting as much steel moved per swing as you could without those pieces added to the mix.

I also agree..  it has its purpose and it's not as a power hammer.

 

Good constructive use would be, setting shoulders or fullering a groove, or even as a swage device when you only have 2 hands.. 

To help answer your question as to why not use a tool between the hammer and work..  Also it takes a larger hammer to drive the tool, to get the same work done.. 
 

Getting better using your hammer will pay off in spades over the long run.. Practice will make you more accurate and build endurance.. 

Sounds good well either way at least i have a new toy lol

Building on what's already been said, it's worth pointing out that the less mass your top tool has, the less inertia it will have to resist your hammer blow.  Large top tools sap a goodly portion of your energy just to get moving.  That's partly why those little swing arm and spring fuller tools get so much use.  Another tip in case you're considering making a set of tenon dies.  Make sure that you taper the mating surfaces of the dies so that you don't gall the stock trying to forge it into shape.  For example a shallow and wide "U" shape on both dies will generate a round tenon.  However if you simply have half a round hole in each die, the stock will pinch and gall where the dies meet.

 

 

 

On 8/24/2018 at 6:45 AM, Dillion Brian Grant said:

Thomas, how could it cut down on efficiency if I'm going to be using a set of dies that are shaped like a cross,pein?

Quite simply because the less "stuff" you have between your hammer, the hot iron, and the anvil, the more efficient your blow.

Friction, mis alignment issues, etc.  One of the primary  tenets of thermodynamics: (They are sometimes given as: You can't win. You can't break even. and You gotta play the game!  It's how our Universe works.)

Haha true true I was starting to think this post had died well like i said it will be a new tool to mess with which I am looking forward to come september 8th i will finally havw a propane forge running which will be very fun 

I (a noob) am disappointed.  I had been considering a guillotine too for similar reasons.  I have to ask though...more in line with the uses I had for it...Could they be used as a temporary crutch until hammer control gets better to help clean up the roughness of my forgings?  Not necessarily for drawing out.  Maybe to planish? (I think thats the right word)

A flatter would be a better option for that purpose.   Practice is an even better option.

Practice is awesome, agreed.  HOWEVER...I am really wanting something useful AND pretty for my efforts.  

Seriously though, I'm glad I ran across this thread before I went all out on a guillotine project.  Thanks for sharing the experience based knowledge!

Flatter or set hammer is what you want. No, you don't need to "forge" either, you can fab perfectly useful versions with basic hand tools. (Go ahead guys blast me, I can take it. I'm in a good mood shake it if you can!)

Do you have access to a welder? Know someone who won't mind running a SHORT weld bead for you? Nope? Man you should learn to be nicer to folks.

Okay, all you need is a piece of reasonably flat steel stock at least 1/2" thick and maybe 2" square. smooth it up, shiny is best and radius the edges a LITTLE. Weld a piece of . . . GASP!(please don't tell anybody Frosty said THIS!)  rebar or something else to it for a handle. That's a flatter. Sure it can be better say 1"+ thick with a striking back will be more effective or better still, a piece of 2" square bar about 6" long you could punch and drift it for a wooden handle. When you're striking HOT steel it doesn't take much, just something to distribute the energy of your blow across the surface. A set hammer is a smaller more rigid version of a flatter, most often used to set shoulders and such.

Make sense?

Frosty The Lucky.

Thanks Frosty!  Yes it makes perfect sense.  I have actually been using a flat-faced, cheap shop hammer as a flatter to good effect.  I am finding though that it is however slightly cumbersome until I can manage to grow a third hand...

I've been thinking on this for a day or so, and have been considering making swages instead.  I suspect Mr. Grant can relate to a strong desire to have something worth looking at when the fire goes cold.  Patience and practice are the only proven solution, but small helper tools can be handy as well I think...training wheels so to speak.

 

And making them also provides more practice.

You're welcome, my pleasure.

Don't hit hammers with hammers they can chip and put a bad hurt on you. Think jaggedy little bullets traveling super sonic for a few feet. Nice little eyelid penetrators you know. Hmmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

Well I have hammers with the temper drawn soft just for hitting hardened tools and vice versa of course!