Huck377 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Hello I'm new to the forum and have my first question. I have been looking at a Fucina Forge manly because the are made from stainless and nice burner design. I can't find any reviews or info on them. Does anyone here have any experience with them? thanks, Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Golly gee Batman! Look at all that stainless! Wouldn't that look great in your shop?!? It would look very impressive, but how would it work? I see no photos of flames coming the their burners, nor photos of how hot the forge will get. What I do see is an impressive amount of design errors in the burners, the hoses, and the forges. You want lots of glitz? Then buy that mess. You want a working forge? Keep on looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Welcome... I agree with Mikey98118... read this thread for the best way to use the forum. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/ Then browse the Forges 101 sticky for ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huck377 Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Mikey98118, I was looking for someone that has used a fucina forge. I'm very new at forging and I have read all of the build your own articles. With that being said what would you suggest for a working forge, not a build you own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exo313 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: I see no photos of flames coming the their burners, nor photos of how hot the forge will get. There is a YouTube video, comes up when I search fucina forge. Is it supposed to sound like that? It is shiny, I'll give em that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I will go back to the site and try to find the video; just to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Link removed I know that you said that you did not want to build your own but it is quite easy to build a forge superior to what you can buy, and many of those you still have to cast the interior. That stainless steel will probably soon turn blue due to the heat. Let me know if I can help you. Wayne Coe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I have no experience with them at all. They do look very shiny. There is a theoretical advantage to having a shiny surface on the outside of the forge: it will reduce radiative heat loss. The effect is small, infinitesimally so compared to other simple measures that can be taken. If the remainder of the forge showed any indication of having been designed to minimize heat loss, I'd actually be quite impressed by the shininess. The burners may be extremely good. The choke looks to be screw-adjustable and I would expect the mixture control to be very good indeed (assuming it has been jetted correctly). If you have an intended use that needs a high level of precision, this is likely to A Good Thing. Burners with screw-adjusted chokes can usually provide the stable (low) temperatures needed for Heat-Treating knives in steels that need a good soak at temperature, O1 and 52100 for example, if that is your interest. Where precision is less of a concern, a sliding choke can provide adequate adjustability: fine if your requirements are plus/minus perhaps 30 degF or so. There are lots of sliding-choke burner designs out there. I tend to use burners based on Amal Atmospheric Injectors, a range of screw-adjustable-choke commercial Venturi mixers that seem to have made converts of almost all the bladesmiths I know who have used them, and a blacksmith or two. These are UK-manufactured and threaded BSP, so are probably not so easy to use in the States, where NP threads are the norm. The Devil Forge DF-series burners from Lithuania are less shiny and cheaper than the Fucina burners, but have a similar choke arrangement. I have found them to be excellent. I have used them successfully in homebuilt forges, though I have not tried a Devil-Forge manufactured forge. A few things leap out at me from the Fucina site. First is that they offer a 0.5-3 bar (7-43.5 PSI regulator). My experience with such regulators is that turndown is not as good as I'd like at around 2.5:1 (gas flow varies as the square root of the pressure. 43.5/7 PSI is a 6.2:1 pressure range. The square root of 6.2 is 2.5). This means that you can only turn down to 40% of maximum. Starting at 40% always strikes me as unnecessarily exciting. To be fair, the ball valve downstream of the regulator probably allows a controlled lighting technique but it does put the operator at the forge, rather than at the regulator a few feet away, when it lights. The claimed burner pressure range is 1-45 PSI and the recommended range is 4-10 PSI. It seems strange that the 7PSI minimum regulator provided can only supply pressure over half the recommended range. A cylinder pressure regulator is useful for showing cylinder contents when using compressed gases (Argon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc). Propane liquifies, so the cylinder pressure gauge will normally show the Vapor pressure above the liquid, right up to the moment when the last of the liquid is gone and the cylinder is effectively empty. While there is still liquid in the cylinder, the vapor pressure is dependent solely on the cylinder temperature. A 2-gauge regulator therefore has one gauge that is effectively just for show. 304 stainless steel has never seemed a good choice for the hot end of a burner to me. It tends to Oxidize when it gets hot and the Oxide layer spalls off as it cools, so it will lose an Oxide layer each time it cools from hot. This happens with all the (Austenitic) stainless steels, but 304 and 316 have about the lowest cycling temperatures. These will lose the Oxide layer with cycling through about 850 degC (1562 degF), while 310 does not tend to lose its Oxide layer until it is cycled through about 1100 degC (2012 degF). I tend to use 310 for flame retention cups because of this. It may be that I'm a cynical old codger, but I find I get very nervous when presented with a tool which has obviously been designed/built with appearance prioritized over performance. The Fucina Forge website does not give me the warm fuzzy feeling I'd like it to. Gratuitous use of type 304 stainless steel, appearance infinitely more important than performance: does anyone else remember DeLorean cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huck377 Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 timgun1962, thank you for taking the time to analyze and explain the pros and cons of the forge. You helped make my decision easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I looked at their site again, and still didn't find a video; that may be my elder computer and its software. $ SKU: 1XBUF-A I could barely recommend this particular model, as it compares favorably with Hell forge's equivalent at about the same price. I agree with everything timgunn1962 says. He should post that article in the Forges 101 thread; it's good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exo313 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=7S6rJ14FnXs Video I was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Thanks for providing the video. The forge definitely gets hot enough to be worth its price. I don't like the metal reaching all the way to the exhaust openings, but loads of forge designs do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I bought a chilli forge more than 10 years ago. Rebuilt it after I welded in it... but it still works great. Getting good heat is important. I think it is important to have a forge that your work fits into. I also keep a coal forge handy for certain purposes. I found nice doesn't work in a forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfeile Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I don't know anything really about them, but it says on their site that even the 2 burner forge only has 1 inch of refractory in it. It seems to me that it is not going to insulate very well and you will waste a lot of gas trying to keep the heat in there. Not to mention the outside is probably going to get real warm real fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Yes and no; the single burner model should be thrifty due to a lot of factors, which won't apply to their larger forges; but then, in the price range charged for the larger models I would demand a lot more forge for the money anyway...Devil forges (their nearest competition) don't come in what I would consider a turn-key condition either. But what remains to be done with either band is closer to polishing a new car then completing a forge build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I like the burner, it's the first time I've seen a full length tapered mixing tube in a long time. I also like stainless shells it's more IR reflective so keeps more heat IN the forge though may not be significant so I don't actually have a positive position. Yeah, 1" of kaowool isn't enough for sure. However I'm wondering if they sell just the burners keep the reg, gauge and hose. I haven't looked and don't have the money to buy one just to tinker but I'd sure like to. The burner I like, the rest is really shiny. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I think that if the forge is used carefully at first, any flaws in its construction can be dealt with, and if it isn't, there could be problems like a warped shell. On the other hand there are lots of forges for twice the price you couldn't give me for free. Like Frosty, I would by this forge just out of curiosity if I could afford that kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 hucks377, what do you think now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huck377 Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 Miley, decided to go a different route. Thanks to a better understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Any rout forward is a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfkerr Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I'll buy it and be the guinea pig. It's a small investment to find out if this "Off The Shelf" product is worth it. Dual burner on order. The bad part. Don't expect any customer service. The forge ships out of Cyprus, yea, Cyprus the country in the Med. Downfall, shipping is one month. Not very good for the impulse buyer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 We look forward to your evaluation. While you're waiting for the forge, I hope you will review the suggested changes for the Devil forges that have seen written up on this forum. Also, I would suggest that you buy a rotary tool and cutoff disk, so that you can make diagonal cuts, starting in the inside corners of the exhaust openings, to relieve stress from expansion in the end caps; otherwise I'm pretty sure they will warp. These factors are why I didn't consider this forge to be turn-key. With some minor changes I think this could be a very fine forge; and we all know what a picky butt Mikey is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldFastForge Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 I own one! gets plenty hot enough. i wish the gauge of the stainless was a tad thicker. i lined over the kaowool with refractory cement to not let the ceramic become airborne and to help reflect the heat back into the forge. i just made this account so i will try to be diligent about getting some pics/video of it working. -hammer on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 Pics of the HOT forge and work please! We've established a custom of not believing without seeing you know. Be specific about what you used as a hard refractory flame face, furnace cements don't last long. High alumina, Water setting refractories on the other hand are something else. I'm coming to think our current consensus and my so far favorite, "Kast-O-Lite 30 li " doesn't have a high enough % of alumina to hold up without a good kiln wash. Kast-O-Lite makes higher alumina% water setting castables but they're darned expensive to shop to Alaska. The 30li is off the shelf here. There are club members experimenting with home brew kiln washes as some of the guys here and some of us are always watching. AH, Hans and I were typing a the same time! Good points Hans! Thank you! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Richter Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 A very nice (‘bling-bling’) forge and burner . Especially like the size/length of the mixing tube, the rigidizing of the mineral fibres and the compact measurement. Seeing some points of improvement -like: -some doors in the front of back of the forge to concentrate heat and save fuel -some extra safety features like ‘hose break’ valve and ‘flame killer’ valve (in case of chimney effect) on the appendages -some ‘spacer’ of stainless steel between the burner on the very close and worn able rubber hose. I use them in case of heat contact after shutting down the burner and crawling up heat from forge and burner (in my case even with the spacers the hoses getting soft like chewing gum). That’s the reason I detach the hoses from the burner after every session to spare the life time of the hoses. Regs, Hans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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