Injured Grip muscles

[John Kelley]

Hey Smith's,

 

Quick question...

About 2 weeks ago I worked on my 2nd KLO (rebar).

I had a few muscle burnouts...but didn't think much of it.

Now..2 weeks later, It still hurts a little below my elbow when I try to grip and move something as light as a can of beer.

It gets better after a few days but then I do something as simple as lift a bag of garbage into my truck at the wrong angle and I feel like I'm back to square 1.

It seems to hurt where my grip muscles attach just below and to the outside of me elbow....kinda where muscles "do the wave" when you run all your fingers up and down.

I was trying to use the technique I read about where you basically hold the hammer handle loosely between your thumb and fingers and just let it rest upon the base of your hand.

Anyway.. if any of you have had such a thing happen..how long did it take you to heal up and start hammering again?

I know we're all different and such..but I'm just looking for some hope.

...also if this a well known Smith's problem with a name I'd love to know it...even though I DO NOT consider myself a Smith at this point.

Thank you

 

John

[Marc1]

You may have what's called tennis elbow. You can buy a strap made for such purpose to have around your forearm. Probably from using a hammer that is too heavy for you at this stage. 

Hope you get better

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Like Mark1 said, switch to a lighter hammer. Are you gripping the hammer too tightly? Is it balanced for your swing? Using too long of a handle tends to stress muscles. Is the anvil at the right height for you and do you have the correct stance at it? Here is a thread dealing with "blacksmith elbow". Resting it is the best way to heal.

 

[John Kelley]

Thank you for the replies.

It is a 2# hammer.

I've tried to get the anvil knuckle ht and stand correctly...etc

I think I just over did it.

I'm not a wimp or one that shirks from pain or physical activity...but I must admit...this actually hurts...lol

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I actually injured my hammering elbow working on my tractor. I was cranking it and reached around at an angle to pull the choke cable out and felt the tendon in my elbow snap. It took about six months to get to the point I could hammer without discomfort. I had to use an elbow brace and take it easy.

Actually the knuckle height of the anvil has been proven to be incorrect with the way we hammer today. Most advise wrist height to be better.

[Marc1]

Agreed. My big and medium anvil are half way between wrist and knuckle and my smaller one is even higher. Sometimes I feel like I want to lift the bigger anvil a tad.

Tennis elbow ... if that is what you have, comes mainly from overusing the extensors on the upstroke so a heavy hammer or swinging it using the full length of the handle can make it worst. 

Place your left palm on your right knuckles and press down whilst you push with your right palm upwards, carefully. If it hurts you have tennis elbow. 

Don't listen to carpenters and choke the hammer, use a lighter hammer and give the arm a rest. Repetitive strain of the tendon insertion takes some time to heal and if it does not heal can become chronic. 

A strap helps too but only after you are better

[Charles R. Stevens]

A death grip on the hammer may be part of the problem. Tight with the pinky, progresively loser with the rest. No thumb on the back of the hammer either. 

[Will W.]

Definitely no thumb on the back of the hammer. Just a few swings of that will make your hand hurt. 

Its similar to weightlifting, you damage muscles, and they repair themselves and are stronger then before (ideally.) Those forearm muscles will strengthen over time, but also like weightlifting, giving the muscles time to heal is critical. You have to let that repair happen before you restress it. Perhaps that healing window is just a little longer for you, or maybe you stressed it a lot. 

In any case, i hope it heals up so you can get back to the forge!

[Buzzkill]

17 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

A death grip on the hammer may be part of the problem. Tight with the pinky, progresively loser with the rest. No thumb on the back of the hammer either. 

This.  I developed tennis elbow in both arms from non-smithing activities, but when smithing it was aggravated much more by trying to grip something tightly than swinging a hammer with a loose grip.  I had the shot in my left elbow, which significantly decreased the pain for about 3 months.  However, when the pain returned it was worse than before.  For me this has been an ongoing issue for more than 3 years and although  I no longer experience the constant daily pain or feel like I barely have the strength to lift a full glass, my grip strength has not yet returned to nearly what it was before.

My recommendation is stop when you start to notice even a little pain.  Give yourself time to heal up and search for therapy techniques you can do to help reduce the pain and speed the healing.  Research good hammer grip and train yourself to do it that way until it becomes natural to you.  It takes a little getting used to if you are used to a different grip, but your body will thank you in the long run.  If you notice it in your tong hand (elbow) then you may want to use longer stock that doesn't require tongs or use tongs that have a ring or clip which holds them closed.  Either way it will allow you to use a looser grip and not aggravate the condition nearly as much as a tight grip.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Another thing is to use your rist, instead of trying to lift the head out at the end of a stick, bend the rist so the head is over the handle, so your not fighting leverage. 

[John Kelley]

Thank you for the great replies Gents.

Lots of good info from you all.

I read about tennis elbow and though it may be a similar type problem...I'm not so sure that is what I have based on the location of the pain.

I really appreciate the thoughts and ideas of how to help this from happening again.

Take care of yourselves guys.

John

 

[Buzzkill]

Some of my pain was in that area as well, for whatever it's worth.  You may have been fortunate enough to just strain the muscles, which should heal much faster if that's the case.

[Smoggy]

I've got fibromyalgia, which could easily produce the symptoms you describe, but I'm not a medical expert so I suggest you consult one as whatever aills you could be any number of things and taking incorrect steps could exasperate the problem.

[deadbudgy]

Unfortunately for the OP I think the only thing to do is rest and let it heal.

Prevention is always better than cure. A large part of being an aging rock climber is injury management of the hands, elbows and shoulders. I've found, over 20 years of repeatably hurting my self, that the best way to avoid a repetitive strain injury is to remember to pay attention to, and work, the antagonist muscle group to the task you have been performing. Basically, after you have been doing a repetitive task, spend some time doing the opposite. The opposite action to gripping with the hand is extension of the fingers. One exercise that I do after every climbing session is to putt a rubber band around my fingers,  so that they all come together in a point, and then slowly spread my hand out wide. This gets harder the further apart your fingers get. If you are going to be swinging a hammer all day long, spending five minutes doing this at the end of the day may help avoid the muscle imbalances that can lead to injuries such as the OP. It will help with overall conditioning also which means you will be able to work for longer before you get fatigued.

Just my 2c. I don't know much about blacksmithing but I'm an expert on hurting myself and have spent enough money on physiotherapy to understand the value of injury prevention.

[Marc1]

Hi DB, the injury described is actually to the extensors and not the flexors so doing that exercise with a rubber band as you describe would probably aggravate it.

The opposite would be pumping an exercise ball, but since muscles are peculiar and both the agonist and antagonist muscle work together regardless of what you do, best would be to have a rest  

[arftist]

Sounds like tendonitis to me AKA the grip.

Ice the heck out of it and cease all painful activities until healed.

[Stash]

I had the same thing a few years back in the same location indicated, to the point that I had a raised knot bulging out. My chiro called it tendonitis, and recommended ice and stay off it for a few days, and that did the trick. It was from repetitive action- I had just finished laying a few thousand bricks for a patio.

Steve

[ThomasPowers]

Note that with some of the possible issues YOU CAN'T WORK THROUGH IT!  Doing so may result in a permanent impairment or needing surgery!

I had 6 months of down time once due to blacksmith's elbow and when I started back I started with very small projects of soft materials---like CP 1 or 2 Ti---dead soft at temperature!

One thing to look at is your hammer handles.  Commercially made handles are not necessarily the right shape for *YOU*.  If it's too fat squeezing to hold it will cause major issues fast.  If it's too skinny with no terminal bulge you may squeeze too hard too.  Just right with a good terminal bulge is what I like so I can grip very loosely but have no fear it will slid out of my hand in use.  Raspinf and sanding handles down to fit your grip is an important part of adjusting your equipment for safety and efficiency.  One size does NOT fit all!

[templehound]

I agree with arftist, sounds like tendonitis.

Dosent matter if it is tennis elbow or some other mechanical issues , everything needs more time, takes longer to heal than You expect.

Especially when You're not 20 anymore......the older the dog the slower it heals.

I had tendonitis from tighten up the tongs on my left arm and nothing made it better than not tighten up tongs for a year......after getting better I used a wrist bandage for a couple of weeks and now I only forge when it is unavoidable, means straight for the living and no forging and playing in the back yard anymore....forging is something beautiful but we don"t  need to blandish it.....if You do it for many years there is  a bill Your body certainly has to pay .

Get well soon!

Cheers

 

 

[Frosty]

Don't push it! Part of the learning curve is learning when you're tired or hurting yourself. Hopefully it's muscle strain and not soft tissue damage occurring. Were you my student I'd recommend a orthopedics sports medicine specialist. Grip, handle shape size, hammer weight, how you strike and how long you work are all factors that impact your joint and muscle health. 

I'm not standing there watching so I can't opine on what's happening beyond the generalizations already stated. Blacksmith's or tennis elbow. 

Treatment? NO, DO NOT wrap in any way and go back to hammering!  Until you know what action or tool is injuring you you MUST let your arm heal. This sort of thing CAN turn permanent if you don't deal with it correctly. Even if you stop to let it heal injured tissues are more easily reinjured by other activities and you need to learn to recognize it happening and stop. Ice as soon as you notice and take an NSAID if you can. I'm a fan of Ibuprofin and stay away from the Tylenol products as much as possible. They're hard on you and are found in virtually everything so I avoid them to avoid the damage.

Maintain flexibility with mobility exercises and gentle strength exercises, squeezy balls and rubber bands are good, but don't over do it! Templehound says it well, a physically demanding job, hobby, etc. has a price you pay later. I"m 65 and can hardly hold a paperback book open for arthritis in my thumbs. Too many years twisting drill rod with wet hands year round in Alaska. 

Frosty The Lucky.