BubbaNash Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 So i have been peeking at this forum for some time, reading a lot of well justified opinions and experiences. So i decided to join the discussion so to speak. Im not technically even a novice smith yet. I own no forge, no anvil. Im a custom home builder and carpenter by trade and currently a building inspector for 2 small cities and a volunteer fire chief. There's my background, so dont beat on me too hard for being ignorant when it comes to smithing (or welding). These are skills i simply have always wanted to learn, and being a fairly new dad, i want to be able to teach my son some of these things when he gets older. Ive read about 100 posts or more over the last several months about gas forges after deciding that propane is going to be the best route for me to start smithing. because my county regularly has a burn ban in the summer and having an illegal burn call to the fire chief's house is rather embarrassing, i decided coal and charcoal will have to wait for better facilities at a later date. It seems that there are several gas forges available prebuilt; Majestic, Mighty, Diamond Back, Devil-Forge, etc. It seems like there is a lot of personal preference for whatever and individual owns... Personally im torn between the Diamond Back and the Devil-Forge because of reviews and cost. The other option would be to build my own. Seems that the cost variable leans in favor of building, but I am the sort that wants to do a good job and not just something that is marginally adequate and wastes gas at $2.60 a gallon. So the questions... What did you (the smithing public) consider when you went to purchase your first gas forge? what did you end up with? and would you do it again? Many Thanks ~ Matt (the Nash in Bubba Nash) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 As you already have tools and skills using them I would advocate building a forge. Not only is the cost in your favor, so is future maintinance. Mike and Jerry have a wealth of knoledge on gas forge and burner construction and are happy to share. Wayne has a nice side gig sorceing non industrial amounts of refractory materials. Guys with gassers find out fast that one size dose not fit all, and wile 90% of smiths will do 90% of their work in a 8" deep forge. But then their are the other 10% who either need a bigger forge all the time, or the 100% who need a bigger forge some times. Having the confidence to build allows you the opertunity to own 2 or 3 forges for the same money. You may have a soul can forge for small work, a 10x8" for general work and a 10x12 for longer twists, scrolles and knife heat treating. This will realy help with fuel effecency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I know squat about gas forges, and Charles R. is probably right about home built. I've read some good reports on ready made Chile Forges and NC Forges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon ForgeClay Works Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Hi Matt and welcome to the forum. If you put your general location in your profile you might be surprised how many IFI members are close to you and would be happy to help in person. I have been forging using coal for decades and because my wife has recently gotten into Smithing she wanted a gas fired forge. We considered buying a gas forge, but after reading here and trying some commercial forges, decided to build her one. We were lucky in that I already had all the components due to having parts for a gas fired kiln that never got built. The only things I had to buy were some refractory & bubble alumina. We are happy with our forge and would do it again. Here is a link to our build and the help we got from everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Matt: Good to see you've done some basic reading, it's refreshing to talk to someone with a handle on the tools and equipment. It makes it a joy to help. A couple questions for you. Do you have access to a drill press? Do you have basic shop skills, say one month of metal shop-1? If so a T burner is within your means. There are more efficient burners, much more but a T is about the easiest to make and works darned well, I can weld under mine if I do it right. Following the procedures is what makes forge welding such a sure thing for folk. Just winging it is what makes it so hit or miss for others. Honest, it's no big deal. If you can make a sandwich, a ceramic refractory blanket, insulated (backed), hard refractory and kiln washed flame face forge, is within your skills set. Well okay it's a LITTLE more involved than just a sandwich, add to the skills list mixing mud pies, ready crete, etc. if you can ice a cake you're an expert already! Mike has posted a link to what appear to be insulating refractory fire bricks, that would make a fine forge liner with a bit of flame face. No need for a welder though having one is nice but you can bolt, rivet, etc. the shell and stand together. This ain't rocket surgery or brain science and you've got a BIG crew pulling for you. Being a fire fighter I'll bet I won't have to do much explaining about tuning a burner flame will I? Fire is fire, the rules are the same no matter what the fuel. Well, excepting hypergolic of course. And we DO discourage the occasional bright idea of using thermite to reach welding temps. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubalcain2 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I am a Diamondback guy all the way, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon ForgeClay Works Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 That would have been our choice too if we hadn't built one and to be honest we may still get one. Like hammers one can't have too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 What I did was build a forge out of a 20# propane tank. Not really all that difficult, and you get the bonus of saving money and customizing it whatever way you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubbaNash Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 did someone say cake? Im pretty set on buying one. big part of my decision is because i have so many (wait for it) irons in the fire. Building one is going to happen and was the initial plan, but time is a gold-premium until November. Frosty may understand, we firefighters really want to jump in head first with new things. waiting is murder and we have the attention span of a ... squirrel! My personality is which if i make it a lot of work to start something it will never happen, but if i find a way to jump in both feet forward and show myself some instant gratification on a small scale i can grab on to it a lot easier. I have plans in my head about the future forge build already. Just worried mostly about burner placement and attachment. my welding skills are pretty poor. I never took a metals class in school. I took drafting and then the shop teacher left at the end of the year. his replacement left much to be desired and so i just learned what i know now from family and working in the field. I took 3 qtrs at a Tech college for Diesel Tech and did some arc welding and cutting with a plasma cutter but thats really the extent of my welding. I can make xxxx near anything out of wood though! I could probably make forge out of wood and concrete thinking about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I can completely understand that point of view. Once I wanted a sailboat, AND I love building things, so of course, I thought, hey, I'll build one. Then I stopped and thought about it. Did I want to spend the next four years building or sailing? I bought one and went sailing. Forge on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 One word, Spaulding. Wood and dirt, certainly. Run that baby on charcoal when the fire danger is reasnable. If you want instant gratification build a box of dirt, then a gas forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Well, there you go Matt, just because something isn't technically difficult doesn't mean it's not time consuming and I have more unfinished and unstarted projects than . . . call it a couple life time's worth. Chili is a good commercially made unit. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 hours ago, BubbaNash said: My personality is which if i make it a lot of work to start something it will never happen, but if i find a way to jump in both feet forward and show myself some instant gratification on a small scale i can grab on to it a lot easier. I have plans in my head about the future forge build already. Just worried mostly about burner placement and attachment. my welding skills are pretty poor. to begin with, everything that everyone had to say was dead-on good advice. But what you seem to be asking for is how to buy as much progress for as little coin in a highly useful first forge as you can get; and the answer would be a Devil forge from eBay. These forges are not completely turn-key, which is a boon, for it allows you to do the finish work with the newest materials out there. Follow Frosty's advise and become familiar with them buy reading all about them in the Forges 101 thread on this forum. Don't choose just any Devil forge; choose one of their oval forges. Do not choose one of Devil's box forges; they want too much money for them. Save lots of money, and gain a first forge that will make you grin from ear to ear, and never end up collecting dust in a corner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubbaNash Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Well, just got back from the dentist with a $700 bill and a new crown. Looks like i might be making one out of dirt... Irondragon - how long did it take you to build your tank forge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon ForgeClay Works Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 It took us 4-5 months working at our leisure and having other things interrupt the progress. If we had worked steady probably a couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubbaNash Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 IF all of the parts were in hand, you think it could be done over the course of a weekend plus a few evenings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon ForgeClay Works Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 The only thing you don't want to rush is the curing of the Kaowool liner and refractories. We had 4 layers and let each one dry/cure overnight before firing them to cure each one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubbaNash Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 Well, i got 2 weekends left to get anything done. Can you or someone recommend a brand of refractory? too many to pick, and i would just get a 50lb bucket of 3000F degree premixed as cheap as it comes. same with the wool, i think we can understand that im a cheap skate and need to be told when to spend the extra money. for now im drilling a piece of 1 1/2 in pipe and hooking it into my fire pit out back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I'm late in responding and there goes another weekend, but I really like Kastolite 30 for refractory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Check out the Build a Gas Forge on the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com for instructions on how I like to build a good, efficient, tough, long lasting forge. You should be able to build in a couple of days leisurely work. Let me know if I can help you. Check my profile for my e-mail address and phone # , I prefer e-mail. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubbaNash Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just a follow up, I made a deal with the wife. I finish a class and i get to buy a gas forge. Well i finished my class and am a Nationally Registered EMR. Now i want my xxxx forge... I have grand ideas for a 2 piece gas forge that i want to build later and will probably order the Kastolite 30 for that. basically building in a removable partition wall between 2 cylinders kind of like a knife valve. But thats later. Im going to get me a Devil Forge 2 burner for now. Wayne, i will likely buy your instructions for building a grinder once i prove to myself i can stick with this craft. I have a bad habit of starting and stopping things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I havent used a devil forge myself. However from there mayerial (where it states the blanket is new and packaged to be installed by you) and from what ive seen from people here on this forums. DF sends there blankets unridgidized and expects you to use them that way. To me that is a major health hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 On 8/22/2017 at 11:53 AM, BubbaNash said: My personality is which if i make it a lot of work to start something it will never happen, but if i find a way to jump in both feet forward and show myself some instant gratification on a small scale i can grab on to it a lot easier. I have plans in my head about the future forge build already. Just worried mostly about burner placement and attachment. my welding skills are pretty poor. 4 It is good to know yourself. Starting from your statement, the obvious choices would be between Devil and Diamondback. Devil makes quite a range of forges. It is very easy to find yourself paying full commercial forge prices on a new brand in the marketplace; unwise! One of their single burner round forges is a good way to ensure getting your money's worth, and ending up with a good size for a beginner's forge; thus saving a whole lot more money on fuel costs. This forge is not to be considered finished as is; you will need to provide hard firebricks (as a minimum) for its ends. You will also fave to rigidize, and finish coat its insulation for health. But these are mere details, some of which you would also need to for most commerceal forges. Diamondback's single burner forge--despite the manufacturer's horrendous politics--is so well made that it is also one of the few commercial forges I can recommend; it is also the right size to save a beginner a whole lot on fuel money; this forge is turn-key (although I recommend finish coating the insulation). If you have read very much on this forum, then you know how cheap and easy rigidizing and finish coating can be. Not only are small forges the least expensive to use, but they are the only forge size that goes right on being a valuable tool for people who don't decide they like blacksmithing after all; because they are the perfect size for buildings and repairing hand tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubbaNash Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 Politics being what they are, there seems to be a lot of good factual information on DB webpage. Enough that i think i will go with a single burner for now. Im reading through Forges 101 and you have a lot of good info... 22 pages of info currently of which i am on page 2 so far (not much of a reader) I keep seeing about rigidizing the insulating fabric/wool. It seems like thats all that is said about it before moving on to talking about refractory cement. What are you using for a rigidizer if not the cement itself? or am i complicating this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 there are three kinds of "rizidizers" at present: Colloidal silica; colloidal alumina; and fine alumina powder with a binder. The first two kinds of riqidizers diffuse onto the threads, which ceramic wool is made from. by capillary attraction,' but the alumina product is use rated higher than silica. The third kind acts similar to Christmas tree flocking. I don't think it is likely to do any better than watered down alumina cement, which is what I would use instead, if that was the effect I was after. Silica rigidizers made from fumed silica (eBay) and water, with a few drops of food coloring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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