Upgrading a Cast Anvil, Advice needed

[CheschireCat]

So I'm pretty new to blacksmithing, got hooked on it as kid only now at 17 getting into the hobby side of things. Unfortunately being 17 does mean a limited budget. My first ever anvil I ever got was a antique anvil/vise combo things that belonged to my grand father.My grandfather broke the vise right out of it, however because it was a Vise combo anvil thing... It has a great big hole in the body of it, were the threads used to sit. So I was thinking of cutting off the vise style base and welding on a new base. (I realize most smiths cringe at the idea of a novice welder [Would like to point out I now have roughly 2 years structural welding experience so I am decently confidant in my welding skills.]messing around with a anvil. But just you wait I'm just getting warmed up.) The other issue I have with the Anvil is the cast iron face on it. It's well a cast iron face, IE. it dents a even a light 1 lbs. hammer blow. I however want to now if it's a good idea to mill off the face in order to weld a steel tools face on to it. I'm going to be working on it in my Auto-Shop class so I will have access to; a mill, mig welding, arc welding, oxyacetylene torches, angle grinders and any other necessary tools. So to recap really quick: 1. Terrible legs and body support on the anvil, is it worth putting a new one on? 2. Removing the cast iron face and replacing it with a steel one?

The anvil face is 6'' by 2&3/4'' by 1/8''

The steel face I plan on using is 6'' by 2&7/8'' by 3/8'' (L*W*H)

The step is 3/4'' by 2&3/4''(L*W)

The Horn is 3&1/2'' long the tip is roughly 3'' in diameter the widest part (Next to the step) is 7'' in diameter (L*D)

The full height is 5&1/2''

The Tip of the horn to the far end of the base is 1'

Attached are pictures of the anvil.

Thanks for having read trough that short story of mine,

-Ray

 

Ps, even if I don't end up cutting and welding stuff I still plan on cleaning it up. (Sand blasting paint and rust off. Along with re-finishing the horn, as it really flat on top.[As is customary with cast anvils I know.])

[Daswulf]

I don't think it is worth trying to turn that into an anvil. You would be way better off trying to get a block of steel to use, build a base for it, and get straight to forging. I'm not saying anything about welding skills, I just think it would be a lot of wasted time and effort when there are way better solutions out there to get and use for an anvil. keep that guy around as an ornament. 

Many Fab shops have drops or even chunks of good steel that could possibly be had for not too much money. Scrap yards? even asking around. Search up TPAAAT.

Good luck on your start!

[CheschireCat]

Yeah I spent some time in the chat talking with the guys on there, they recommended pretty much the same thing. Thanks for the advice.

[Daswulf]

yup. Hey not trying to discourage you at all. We want you to succeed. You will learn Many more useful skills getting forging even using a sledgehammer head as an anvil, then spending the time and effort trying to make that work. 

[CheschireCat]

not feeling discouraged, more toughtful trying to stuff working kinda tought.

[Daswulf]

with all the tools you will have access to in your auto shop class you could make all kinds of other useful blacksmithing tools. Search, Guillotine tool. There are many other Good projects you could make with those tools at hand, and you will be ahead of the game.

[CheschireCat]

Yeah been working on convincing my teach to let me work on some other projects. I have to make a design doc for any project I plan on doing.

[Tubalcain2]

here's 2 cents from a fellow teenage blacksmith on a budget. my best advice would be to to do as Das said and use anything you can get BESIDES what you have there. I don't think it would be worth the time to turn that into an anvil, and to result would be crummy at best. what you have looks to be all cast iron, which, besides being difficult to work with, is really no good for an anvil anyway. hope this helps, and good luck with your new hobby!

[C-1ToolSteel]

Greetings CC!

Like Das said, you would be better off buying a block of steel. My recommendation is to get as big of a chunk of steel that you can find, and use it for the majority of your work. However, I'm actually impressed with the horn on that little guy. I would keep it around for whenever you need a horn. Between that and a big chunk of steel, you will be adaquately equipped to start smithing. The next thing to start thinking about is a good vise or other way to hold your hardy tools. Of course, you should always keep your eyes open for a good anvil, but don't let it keep you from getting started! It will come. I thought mine never would...

C-1

[Mark Ling]

16 minutes ago, C-1ToolSteel said:

I thought mine never would...

C-1

We all thought we would never get on! But in the end we got some decent anvil finding storys.

                                                                                        Littleblacksmith 

[George Geist]

Dittos to what the other guys said. That thing is an ASO not worth the time or effort. Obviously wasnt a very good vise either.

Get better equipment. The stuff is out there.

George 

[C-1ToolSteel]

But it's the best horn I've ever seen on a vise. Most of them are flat.

[Daswulf]

Being cast iron I wouldn't trust it for heavy hammering. Maybe light stuff. Could break it right off.  

[C-1ToolSteel]

Hopefully by then you will have a better one.

[Ridgewayforge]

No reason you can't use the horn for light bending until it breaks. Give it a try! Worst you have now is a slightly less usable tool.

[CheschireCat]

Thanks again for the Advice guys, A few points,

1. George, what does ASO mean? It's a term I've never heard of.

2. I have a hardy tool holder, It's an old fram tractor balast that I've punch a 1inch square into, heavy block maybe 20 or so pounds, sits right on top of my anvil, so it's nice and stable and gives a good hammering surface. I'd recomend it for anyone else who has a smaller anvil with no pritchel/Hardy hole.

3. The horn on that thing was flatter than the face of the thing when I first got it. You'd be surprise what you can acheive with a flapdisk on a grinder.

I've created another post about the current face in the appropriate topic section. If someone wants to help me out a little bit more here's a link: 

 

[Daswulf]

ASO= anvil shaped object. 

We use the term to describe what you have there. It's shaped like an anvil but won't work well as one. Generally cast iron is too soft and brittle for use as an anvil. As we stated before, a chunk of steel will work well. Just because it's shaped like an anvil dosnt make it one. What makes an anvil is the function. 

[Tubalcain2]

ASO= anvil shaped object. it's a somewhat derogatory term used to describe cast iron ''anvils''. 

[ThomasPowers]

While a plain solid block of steel doesn't qualify as an "ASO" but as an "anvil".

[the iron dwarf]

cast iron rods are very expensive and you would need to weld the entire area not just round the edge,

you can start by putting a 1/4" rod on the surface you have milled down the center line,

then clamp your new tool steel face to it

then weld first one side then the other removing the slag each time till you get to the outside edge

this could take $50 of rods easily even on something that small

then you will need to heat treat the face.

a block of steel or piece of rail is far better and will save you a lot of money.

NEVER GRIND THE FACE OF A PROPER ANVIL UNLESS YOU WANT TO TURN IT INTO A GARDEN ORNAMENT.

The hard face can be very this and when it is gone it is very expensive to put right.

also never weld on the face unless you know what you are doing as the heat will affect a much greater area, just because you can weld does not mean you know how to repair anvils and trained and qualified welders have ruined many anvils in the past

[John in Oly, WA]

I'd suggest honing up your persuasive talking skills and find all the places around you that might have big pieces of scrap steel or even an old anvil. Tell your story, that you're in school, working to learn the blacksmithing trade etc. and see if they won't GIVE you something that would work as an anvil. If you look serious and sincere enough about it, I'll bet you could come up with something for free. Also an ad on Craigslist or the local equivalent to the same effect might find an old codger with a soft spot for a young novice just starting out. Give it a shot - who knows what you might find.

[Frosty]

Ditto, that's not an anvil and nothing you can realistically do to it will make it one. Talk to the guys in a heavy truck shop, a broken truck axle makes a fine anvil mounted on end flange up. Much of the efficiency of an anvil is in how much steel is directly under the hammer blows and you really don't need much more anvil face than the width of the hammer face.

A long/wide flat face is unnecessary as is a horn. Both have uses occasionally but can be done without easily. 

Frosty The Lucky.