Welding fumes are worse than we thought

[Richard Furrer]

I just saw this posting and needed to share.

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-12-manganese-welding-fumes-neurological-problems.html

Time for a different mask with filter and an exhaust system in my shop.

 

Ric

[tdaleh]

Down draft welding  table.  But that only works on smaller projects .

[Iron Poet]

Would the average blacksmith need to worry about this? I feel that forge welding or even just forging would produce a negligable amount of manganese exposure. From what I understand most of the danger is caused by the smoke the flux gives off, which forge welding typically doesn't have.

 

The guys stick welding might have problems though.

[ausfire]

Thanks for posting this, Richard. We should all be aware of the risks involved, especially welding unknown materials that may contain all manner of nasties, and who knows what is in the flux or even mig wire. Serious stuff. Clear air respirators are expensive, but a wise investment.

[Pat Roy]

So where is the manganese coming from? The base metal, the filler material, the flux?

[Richard Furrer]

On 12/29/2016 at 9:06 AM, Pat Roy said:

So where is the manganese coming from? The base metal, the filler material, the flux?

maybe all three Pat, but I would wager the steel being welded and the filler rod......same with chrome issues as well. It has to be there to be an issue.

Ric

[Anachronist58]

Thanks Mr Furer. The chart linked below shows Manganese Oxide as a slag former in a few flux coatings - I expect that a number of the hard-facing electrodes are high in Manganese,  and of course, base metals designed for abrasion / impact resistance.

http://www.nbent.com/table.htm

Robert Taylor

[Frosty]

You can pull a MSDS on any welding rod sold in the US, you'll be amazed how many have mang and other bad to breath metals and additives Vanadium isn't good for you either. Hard face rods are full of bad but many "common" rods have chrome and mang.

An old friend of mine has the most primitive and maybe most effective respirator I've ever heard of, it works regardless of beard, your position and is amazingly comfortable. He held a garden hose in his mouth that ran outside his shop. Inhale through your mouth exhale through your nose.

Crude as all get out and OSHA would poop cinder blocks by the palet and NO I don't recommend the breathing system but sometimes needs must.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

I've known several knifemakers who built themselves a positive pressure system.  Blower intake outside the shop in a "clean area"---screened against wasps!!!!!!!, then PVC pipe into the shop attic ending over the grinder with a flexible hose going down to a hardhat with face shield. Clean air always blowing OUT.  Really nice during the summer out here.  I figure that during the winter up north you would need to factor in a heat exchanger...

Manganese started being added to steel back when they started to use coke for smelting as residual sulfur caused hot short issues in the metal.  Mn preferentially binds to the sulfur dealing with the hot short issues.  So even the simple steels like 1080 there is Iron, Carbon and Manganese---but it's not listed in the designator unless large amounts are present as a special alloy (work hardening alloys for example)

[Pat Roy]

I don't do any stick welding, just mig and tig, and generally work with only low carbon steel. I just looked up 1020 and it has 0.3 to 0.6% manganese. That doesn't seem like much compared to some of the electrodes, of which some have manganese oxide and ferromanganese 0 to 20% depending on the rod you select.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Pat Roy
edited and added text

[AJtheWelder]

I do a lot of SMAW (stick welding) and most of the manganese is in the flux in the higher pressure rods, it is used as a stablizer in the new weld. it is found in very high amounts in the flux in dual shield Flux core wire. when ever I do flux core welding, I check one of two things, 1. is it vented extremely well and have a filtration system, and 2. is it out side. if it is neither one of those I have an optrel hood that has a belt mounted air scrubber, it has helped me a lot in tight spaces.

[bubba682]

1. None of it's good for ya grinding discs probably killed more

 

 

guys than anything they had a lot of asbestos in them.Sharpening tungsten without a mask is really hard on ya over time welding stainless killed a lot of welder any of the exotics are real hard on the body.A lot of the cancers and poisons get absurd thru the skin as well,welding with a t shirt on and no protection for your arms is dumb.

Sorry about the post but my iPad has a mind of its own lol

[SLAG]

A recent research report stated that flux core wire welding produced the highest levels of manganese fumes in the air.

I came across that reference earlier this year and posted it on Jock's website.

SLAG.

[bubba682]

 SLAG that doesn't surprise me i stay away from it .