Aquiring tools

[firestarter246]

Hello I am a beginner bladesmith and am asking if anyone knows where to find good tools, and what tools are recommended as well as any advice anyone might have for a beginner like myself. I currently have two 3 lb hammers(cross pein) and a 4 lb hammer I also have a pair of flat nib tongs that close to about 1/4 in. I am starting out working with 3/8 railroad spikes. Any information , advice, or help is greatly appreciated.

[Latticino]

Good tools can be found in many places: online blacksmith supply, antique shops, e-bay, yard sales, your relative's basement, flea markets...

As far as what you might need:

1. A lighter hammer.  For a beginning bladesmith 3# is a bit heavy to learn the required hammer control.  I would suggest 2#.
2. Something to use as an anvil.  Lots of possibilities here, don't get fixated on a London pattern, you hardly need it for bladesmithing.
3. Something to heat your metal up with.  Sounds like you want to do some forging, so you need to get up to orange heat at least. Gas or solid fuel forge is what most of us use.
4. High carbon, tool or spring steel: railroad spikes are not appropriate for making knives with in general
5. More sets of tongs to fit the steel and size of knife you want to make, flat nib are barely adequate and the stock will shift as you learn forging making control more difficult.
6. A tank and appropriate fluid to quench in for the critical heat treatment part of the process
7. Something to do final shaping on the steel after forging.  Good files and wet/dry sand paper at least.
8. A book or two on bladesmithing, or some in-person training from a smith who knows the craft

[ThomasPowers]

I buy most of my tools lately at the local fleamarkets.  I find the ones that have a lot of used "rusty stuff".  Not knowing where you are located makes it hard for anyone to give you specific answers.  (Like if you were in Columbus Ohio there are a couple of used tool businesses I would direct you to; but just a waste of typing if you are in New South Wales Australia...bought a pair of tongs and a hammer at the fleamarket along the river in Frankfurt A.M. before too)  Also Lighter hammer to start out with---really surprises my students when I do twice as much work in a heat with a hammer that weighs half as what theirs does...

RR spikes are not made from a knife alloy, Car springs, leaf and coil, generally are.  How good are your basic blacksmithing skills?  If you are new to blacksmithing as well it would help a lot if you learn the basics first and go onto bladesmithing after you know fire control, hammer control, how metal moves under the hammer etc.

If you were only in the USA you could take classes at the ABS, American Bladesmiths Society, schools or attend affiliate meetings of  ABANA.

My favorite bladesmithing tongs are a pair of short reined, short bit horseshoeing tongs that are 1/4" at parallel.  Lots of threads on forging your own and since you are starting bladesmithing you should be well up on blacksmithing to do so.  (Otherwise it's like asking for help in Formula 1 racing---but you don't know how to drive yet.)

[Kozzy]

The absolute unquestionable most important key to acquiring tools is time.  People get way to itchy to gather a lifetimes worth of tools in a month.  Remember, that guy you see with the great tool collection might have been picking them up over a 20 year+ span. Be patient, let time do it's job.

The second key is to put yourself into places where the tools might be.  People have named of few of these.  Don't drive by that crappy looking "juntique" shop in the middle of nowhere without stopping.  Drop by that sleazy looking pawn shop in the rough part of town if you happen to be in the area anyway.  Go to the rust, don't wait expecting it to come to you.  It's a treasure hunt and you might be successful 1% of the time...if you get good at it. Fun too if you keep a good attitude when you aren't successful.

Third key is one that is REALLY tough to learn:  Skip it if it's junk.  Some things like hammer heads are pretty hard to become junk but others like that rusted-out casting-cracked vice you've been hoping to run across can be so tempting they're hard to pass.  If it's junk, don't let emotions lead you to wasting your money.  Quite subjective as to what constitutes junk so you get to decide that for yourself.  One man's junk is another's treasure.

Finally, buy once and buy right with the more modern tools you need.  This one is tough because budgets are always tight.  However, it's almost always better to save up to buy a quality tool than it is to get the Chinese junker because that's what you can afford today.  You'll actually usually spend way more on replacing poor quality several times over vs buying decent quality in the first place.  Also, some of that junk-tooling does a very poor job so you'll often waste tons of time with it (a good example of this is cheap drill bits vs a quality set).

 

[Jackdawg]

he who dies with the most tools wins.....

[ThomasPowers]

Well said Kozzy!   Also remember that when you overpay for a tool at a fleamarket cause you really need it you are setting yourself up to overpay for every other tool you get there!

I remember when I was starting to buy stuff at a scrapyard and found some tools, he wanted almost new price for them; I tossed them back on the pile with a smile and left. After several times I started getting tools at the same price I bought regular scrap (US) 20 cents a pound.  Soon they we sticking stuff to the side for me. (Which I tried to buy whether I needed it or not to keep them encouraged to do it *more*)

[firestarter246]

Thank you all for the tips and information, I forgot to mention I have an anvil ( the back end is broken off but it still has the horn and a flat surface ) and I will try to find a lighter hammer. Unfortunately I have no teacher other than demonstrations on youtube and what ever I find with diagrams to make sure I understand. I am already looking for tools at yard sales and various other secondhand places. presently I am using railroad spikes to learn to shape the metal because I could pull about thirty out of cross ties around the house and they can be acquired cheep and in abundance. once I have improved my skill I plan to move onto quality metal.

[ThomasPowers]

You may be surrounded by teachers but if we don't know a general location nobody can be suggested.

OK just remember that different alloys work differently so leaning to work spikes will require some retraining to work different alloys.

[firestarter246]

I bounce back and forth from Mobile and Fayette Al ( most of my work is done in Fayette )

[ThomasPowers]

 

I bounce between La Union NM and Socorro NM and work in Mexico right across the border.  I've got forges in both places but the travel does impact my fleamarket and scrapyard activity, Scrapyard up north open Saturday mornings, Fleamarket Friday mornings;  I haven't found a local scrapyard I like down south as a steel company scarfs up their stuff fast.

So Alabama Folks what's going on that may be helpful to folks in that area?

[firestarter246]

Well in ALabama I know of a scrap yard in Fayette with plenty of stuff as well as the local junkman. He has plenty of stuff, ( last time I was there I think I saw 5 maybe 7 buses  as well as several different types of metal you literally can't walk in his yard without stepping on metal ) there is no telling what you might find.

[Frosty]

Might I recommend a 2lb. drill hammer to build hammer control with. They're smooth double faced (no peen) with a short handle. They're heavy enough to move metal efficiently but light enough to not tire you out too quickly. Fatigue sneaks up on you when you're breaking into the craft and the first symptom is loss of control. If you're not making the blows you were a little while ago take a break, you're getting tired. This cue will show before you feel tired. The other big advantage for starting out with a drill hammer's short handle is the extra control it gives you.

I've been futzing around on anvils for probably 45 years off and on and have always had a drill hammer on the job. There are two in the shop now, one I've had since '96 when a bunch of my kit was stolen including my first drill hammer. I use it for precision work, sometimes you just need more control but some power behind it ad the drill hammer is perfect.

Frosty The Lucky.

[John McPherson]

Alabama Forge Council has NINE subgroups that meet around the state, and a couple of awesome state-wide meetings a year. The annual spring Batson's Bladesmith Symposium draws folks from around the US and even from other countries. I would say that you are in luck.

 

http://www.alaforge.org/contact_us.html

[jmccustomknives]

One of my saleman told me about an anvil setting in someones yard in Fayette.  He said he'd stop in and inquire about it.  I'm trying to get the Tuscaloosa Forge meetings started again as it hasn't met in years and is all but dead. 

The Alabama Forge Council meets this September, there's always tailgating.  Usually you'll find them raffling off a blacksmiths kit too.  They had 2 last year, the same guy won both.   

[firestarter246]

Must be lucky, thanks for the information about the drill hammer and the meetings. I don't know anyone with an anvil in their yard, couldn't have been town and well with all the back roads there is no telling where he might have found it or who you might see. If I had to guess, the only person I know who might have that would be Junkman(yes that's actually what we call him and with good reason)

[BlackMetalViking]

Just start telling everyone you know that may have access to tools, or know someone that does. You'd be surprised how many old unwanted tools will just show up. I would suggest finding or making a hot cut hardy, it made life so much simpler! That one is easy, just get creative and make something! I made mine by hot pressing a brick chisel into a piece of pipe that was hot fitted to my hardy hole. It took a couple heats to get everything set just right, but it works slick as spit!

Viking

[firestarter246]

Unfortunatly the anvil I hace come into pozetion of has the back end broke off so there is no hardy hole. Do you think a few plates from cross ties welded together and then to a metal table would do?

[JHCC]

1 minute ago, firestarter246 said:

Unfortunatly the anvil I hace come into pozetion of has the back end broke off so there is no hardy hole. Do you think a few plates from cross ties welded together and then to a metal table would do?

Use the search feature to find posts about a "portable hole"

[Latticino]

5 hours ago, Frosty said:

Might I recommend a 2lb. drill hammer to build hammer control with.

Also a big fan of the ubiquitous 2# drill hammer.  It was my first "real" smithing hammer and I still like to use it.  I ground one side to a bit of a rounded profile and use it for my "light" rounding hammer.  If pressed I could easily do any forging necessary for basic bladesmithing with it, and have in the past.  Last time I was over, Harbor Freight did have a cheap one, though the handle is a bit long and the faces soft.  I keep it for beginners to use so I don't give out the nice old one I found hanging in a corner of my father's basement.

[ThomasPowers]

I have a Powell with a broken off heel.  I found a piece of structural steel tubing and fastened it to the back end for a hardy hole. (Think large U bolt with a cross bar)  Make your tooling so that impact tools rest on the anvil face.  Yes it has to be adjusted up every once in a while but once I find a heavy duty piece of tubing I'll weld it solid to the back end.

Even with the end broken off it's still about 120 pounds and cost $40 as it was "damaged"...

[Michael Cochran]

I don't know anything about your side of town but if you ever make it out this way let me know and I can show you where I find some or my treasures. As far as tooling, I just tell pretty much everyone that I meet I'm a blacksmith (I use the title loosely) and go from there. I've had some people that want to hear and learn more and some that don't have a clue and don't care and a few that have suggestions where to find some tools.