renaissance man Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 So I'm sure this is gonna cause quite a stir, but please be gentle, I'm new to blacksmithing. I can't afford to buy an anvil right now, but I was able to obtain, legally, several pieces of railroad rail. As shown in the pictures I'm planning on cutting one piece in half to make two anvils as an experiment. I've read about people using a leaf spring and welding it on top for the flat and hardened surface, then throwing it in a fire to slowly heat up and then dropping in water to harden. I guess my question is, I also obtained a piece of steel they use to attach the rail to the tie. It has square holes already in it, and it the length of my anvil from the horn to the end of the face. Can I use this in place of the leaf spring? Later on I plan on cutting another piece in half and welding the two pieces together to form a wider anvil, with a piece of hardened steal welded on top. I forgot to mention I plan on using one of the square holes hanging off the back side of the anvil as a hardy hole. That way I don't have to drill any holes into the rail itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpearson Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 search for "Another rail road anvil" and "4140 Forklift tine Anvil And Introduction" for better ways to use your rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Locate one more piece of rr track and nest and weld the 3 pieces together. Then locate a piece of HEAVY plate and weld to the top of the assembly. (via Frosty) Stand the rr track on end and use it as an anvil. The track surface is smaller than the hammer head so there is no problem. All the mass of the track will be directly under the hammer so it works well. Sell what you make and buy a real anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Where are you in East TN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewayforge Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 First, if you throw it in water, that big of a chunk will crack- its high carbon steel. Also, railroad rail does not need anything to make it 'better'. The top of it (the part in contact with the wheels of the trains) will hold up to a lot- it held trains, and is work hardened. The problem is, the web is meant to flex, otherwise the trains would break it. So, if you set it on end and use the cut ends as the anvil face, you get a lot of mass, which means energy returned to the work when you strike steel on it. I would leave it as is, do not weld, and after 6 months of using it to produce pieces to sell, ask yourself if you want to weld it up. You can always decide later to do it differently, but right now it would be hard to return the track to its current state if you weld it up. You can still mount the track plate on a stump with a hole drilled in the stump to accept a hardy through the square hole- It has one huge advantage: It fits RR spike shanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Your going about it the hard way, tip that bad boy up right and forge on the end! It makes a much better anvil that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 If you really want to turn that anvil into a more london pattern anvil I strongly suggest you read the chapter on how to do so in "The complete modern blacksmith", Weygers and I don't feel like typing in the 3 pages and ten pictures in his instructions. As you are in America you should be able to ILL the book at your local public library; though it's well worth selling plasma and spending the less than 20 bucks to buy it at abebooks.com. I would read your original post as: "I can't afford to buy an anvil right now but I was able to obtain legally several anvils. Take a look at the anvil being used by the master Japanese swordsmith in the National Geographic "Living Treasures of Japan" it's on Youtube but you may need to find the chunk that has the swordsmith in it. As useful as the london pattern anvil is most of the world for most of history has been using other shapes for 10 times as long. Don't let *that* push your start date off! 1000 hours on a $20 anvil with beat 20 hours on a $1000 anvil any day of the week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuppiejr Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 18 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said: Your going about it the hard way, tip that bad boy up right and forge on the end! It makes a much better anvil that way. So true, I uncovered a couple chunks of track in my scrap pile and did some test forging on both the work hardened rail "top" and with the section set on it's side forging on the round... the round worked much better. I ended up routering the profile of the track into the face of a stump and ran a chain through the existing hole in the rail so I could bolt it down, worked great until I got on my Peter Wright hot streak. Honestly for all the hoops people (myself included) jump(ed) through to get chunks of railroad track to use as interim anvils, I think a 20 pound sledge hammer head is far easier to find and as good or better as a starter anvil than a chunk of railroad track on it's side or welded together with a bunch of other metal scrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 It all comes down to what you can lay your hands on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance man Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 On 8/8/2016 at 4:06 PM, eseemann said: Where are you in East I live in Morristown. On 8/8/2016 at 4:16 PM, Ridgewayforge said: First, if you throw it in water, that big of a chunk will crack- its high carbon steel. Also, railroad rail does not need anything to make it 'better'. The top of it (the part in contact with the wheels of the trains) will hold up to a lot- it held trains, and is work hardened. The problem is, the web is meant to flex, otherwise the trains would break it. So, if you set it on end and use the cut ends as the anvil face, you get a lot of mass, which means energy returned to the work when you strike steel on it. I would leave it as is, do not weld, and after 6 months of using it to produce pieces to sell, ask yourself if you want to weld it up. You can always decide later to do it differently, but right now it would be hard to return the track to its current state if you weld it up. You can still mount the track plate on a stump with a hole drilled in the stump to accept a hardy through the square hole- It has one huge advantage: It fits RR spike shanks! After getting a piece of it cut into two smaller anvils with different horn sizes I think I'm not going to weld anything on top of it. After reading a lot about turning the rail straight up on its side I stumbled across an image of an anvil cut out of a piece of rail, welded to the top of a rail on its side. That's my next attempt. For now I'm going to use what I have. I'm learning as I go. On 8/8/2016 at 10:43 PM, ThomasPowers said: If you really want to turn that anvil into a more london pattern anvil I strongly suggest you read the chapter on how to do so in "The complete modern blacksmith", Weygers and I don't feel like typing in the 3 pages and ten pictures in his instructions. As you are in America you should be able to ILL the book at your local public library; though it's well worth selling plasma and spending the less than 20 bucks to buy it at abebooks.com. I would read your original post as: "I can't afford to buy an anvil right now but I was able to obtain legally several anvils. Take a look at the anvil being used by the master Japanese swordsmith in the National Geographic "Living Treasures of Japan" it's on Youtube but you may need to find the chunk that has the swordsmith in it. As useful as the london pattern anvil is most of the world for most of history has been using other shapes for 10 times as long. Don't let *that* push your start date off! 1000 hours on a $20 anvil with beat 20 hours on a $1000 anvil any day of the week! Thank you for the advice! 6 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said: It all comes down to what you can lay your hands on. I was able to get the rail for free and cut at work for nothing. I know eventually I'll get a real anvil but I hope this will help me get started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 If you forge hot steel on it it is a "real" anvil. A granit cobble, 3" exivator pin, a chunk of rail, a sledge hammer head, or a mouse hole, they are all anvils. Seriusly look at " another rail iron anvil" before you try to carve out a London patern anvil from your hunk of rail. Less work and more mass under the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 You have a real anvil, it just isn't a London pattern anvil. As to horns. I rarely use the horn on my anvils, and all of the scroll work is done on the top face, not the horn. Rail is around a 1080 steel , so it will get hard as well as being a tough alloy. If you weld anything on it you will need to take in consideration the heat affected zone so it doesn't crack off. Your best bet is to just stand it on end, and get to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51 Papy Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 The more I use my post anvil the more I like it. I'm not saying I'm not looking for a London pattern anvil but it would have to be a deal!!! Don't sell those bucket pins short. An hour with the grinder and your ready for the hammer and some hot iron. It's been an economical way for me to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 51 Papy, what are the dimensions of you hunk 'O steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51 Papy Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Eseemann 5 1/2" x about 27" long. I didn't weigh it. Papy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 5.5" diameter x 27" long should be about 182 pounds if it was 4140 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Papy, I would say that is big enough! Thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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