worsethanrust Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Hello, I am a new member and the name says it all. I'm worse that rust when it comes to my skills in smithing. I have a small forge with hand cranked blower and a decent but not great anvil. I am interested in many projects but I wanted to make some wood working tools first. I would eventual like to make chisels and plane blades but for now, I need a little guidance on making scorp and spoke shave blades. These would be the old style blades that look like a big staple with two sharp points extending through the handle or inserted into a turned handle and the blade would be the center of the staple. Some are curved blades and some straight. So, i am assuming that I would use a type of tool steel. I have some railroad metal that is "supposed to be" 1060 which seems like it would be OK for this. I am red green color blind slightly. What color should I look for when heating a steel with higher carbon content than mild scrap? After forming the piece, would Pig lard be an OK tempering agent? If the metal I start with has been cut by a torch, are there any steps I need to take prior to shaping? I have tried to read all I can but I apologize if my questions are silly. Thank you for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Heat a small piece of your 1060 to a cherry red and quench in oil. If it gets glass hard and brittle, it might be usable. I order plain carbon W1 water hardening steel from Travers Tool, sold in various diameters and termed "drill rod." It has about 1% carbon which would be good for woodworking tools' edge holding ability and keenness. After forging and doing some cold sanding partial finishing, you quench the blade only in oil. Don't heat and harden the tangs. If you have enough pig lard, it could be melted and used. Don't sharpen before quenching; leave the cutting edge about 1/16" thick to help prevent warping. Now you temper by reheating to 500F in the kitchen range or a toaster oven. Tempering will remove the brittle condition and impart toughness. Finish sharpening by grinding/sanding/honing/whetting. It would be easier to make a flat chisel before attempting a scorp or drawknife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Being color blind you can use a magnet to test when it is ready to quench. Keep touching it with a magnet until it doesn't stick, at that point it is at critical temp. It isn't perfect, but it will get you good enough results to start with. Many machine shop suppliers sell O-1, W-1, etc for good prices, it really isn't that expensive new. Check ENCO, MSC, J&L, Travers, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Table salt melts at critical temp, which is just above the point where it losses it's magnetic attraction. Typicaly you just put it back in the fire for a few and your good, but the salt will help you learn just how long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 O1 and W1 are common for woodworking blades. IIRC, 'the complete modern blacksmith' has info on wood working tools in it. If you haven't read it, I highly suggest it if you are new to this. Books beat YouTube or Facebook "experts" any day of the week. Either buy it or try and ILL it from your local library. It's well worth the read for a newbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 If these are RR spikes they are NOT 1060 as the official spec for them says 1030 is the upper limit. If they are the "&" sort of things, rail anchors, they are supposed to range up to 1060. Test as suggested above If they are piece cut from rail---things get interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worsethanrust Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 I really want to thank all of you for comments and tips. All of this really helps a lot! Thomas, they are the the & shaped things. They are really hard to get worked down to a workable shape for me. I really enjoy working with it but it it takes a lot of heat to get it cut into size. I'm using coal that I find on the side of the train tracks and old bins that are not in use any more so I get a wide variety of quality. Thanks again for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Welcome aboard, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the iforge gang live within visiting distance and believe me you can read volumes about determining critical temperature but ONE time is all it takes if someone shows you in person. You also want to get connected with the local blacksmithing organization, tools schools, materials, the presence of guys who like to play with fire and hit things. You'd be amazed at the demographic of current blacksmiths who started as wood workers who just wanted THAT planer blade, chisel, hook knife, etc. and didn't want to pay hundreds to have one made. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worsethanrust Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Thanks Frosty! I will update that info now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 There was a good thread recently about making and using drawknives, which might be helpful. Check it out HERE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud in PA Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I recently received an email from the Instructables site, they made a draw knife from a 10 inch diamond saw blade. No blscksmithing involved but quick and easy. It caught my attention since the doc still won't let me pick up a hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worsethanrust Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 Thank you everyone. This is such an awesome site. As a newbie, I was worried about getting ridiculed for my lack of knowledge (this happened on another site I won't name) but you guys have been great. I am looking forward to learning and meeting some of the blacksmiths in my area. I hope someday I can help others as you guys have helped me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Lack of knowledge is not a problem; however you will pick up some chaff if you ask questions that are indeterminate, (the devil is in the details!) or have been covered several times a week for *years*---there are actual threads on how to search the archives without using the built in less than satisfactory search. Note when asking a question giving the context is often helpful as sometimes the answer is "Don't try it that way; do it this much easier, faster, cheaper method to accomplish the same thing..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worsethanrust Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 Thanks Thomas! I am trying to go thru the archives and other threads now so I can answer some of my questions without wasting other peoples time. Some questions I have are seemingly simple but I have to word them better. I was just blown away by all the help I got. It was a great first experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 33 minutes ago, worsethanrust said: Thanks Thomas! I am trying to go thru the archives and other threads now so I can answer some of my questions without wasting other peoples time. Some questions I have are seemingly simple but I have to word them better. I was just blown away by all the help I got. It was a great first experience. That's more than half the fight right there! It takes a base of knowledge to ask good questions and understand the answers. Knowing you need to learn that much is a HUGE leap a lot of new guys never get. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I was rather bemused by all the help that professional armourers would offer over at armourarchive.org; seemed like they were undermining their own business. Then I realized that the vast majority of people trying to make their own armour were really adjusting their oven view from "Thats *expensive* I could make my own!" to "Wow how can they make it so well and so cheap!" many of us are paying it forward for the help we received, even back in the pre internet days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Hmmm, making armor isn't that hard, just basic tools, basic skills and the patience to get good using them. A little knowledge and a LOT of practice. The hardest part of making armor I found was getting the fighters to pay for it. When I went to a 50% in advance and COD it got much easier, I haven't made armor since seems not having to pay for it is a must for the guys. A barrel helm and a couple layers of carpet and zip ties is fine if a little too anachronistic. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 On June 18, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Frosty said: A barrel helm and a couple layers of carpet and zip ties is fine... That's the kind of talk that gets newbies in trouble with the vice squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 hours ago, JHCC said: That's the kind of talk that gets newbies in trouble with the vice squad. What do I care. I made REAL fighting armor and my war hammer wasn't made from rattan. You couldn't wear enough carpet to keep it off you and still move. Heck I ain't played with the SCA in decades though I stop in when they're set up at the nearby park once in a while. Probably the best helms of the not reasonably expensive kind are modified motorcycle helmets, armor is still carpet or formed thermal plastic. Kind of sad actually but what the hey they have fun. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Frosty said: I made REAL fighting armor and my war hammer wasn't made from rattan. White birch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Ouch! I can't tell if the referee is doubled over from laughter or signalling a low blow on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 As helms are REQUIRED to be made from steel of 16 gauge or heavier and 12 and 14 gauge are common I don't know how modified motorcycle helmets could be used for SCA heavy fighting. If you want to see some pretty steel armour look at the work of Ugo; he's doing Negroli type work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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