Buzzkill Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 So, I got a wild hair last weekend and decided to build a wood lathe, mostly out of parts I had after upgrading my belt grinder. The only experience I have turning wood is the couple pieces I did when I got it functional. Now I'm thinking I need to forge some tools to help out there, and a draw knife is one thing I thought might help with the rough shaping before I put pieces on the lathe. I've got some O1 drill rod, plenty of coil spring and leaf spring, and some old files I could use. Since I have no experience here I'm looking for advice/preference on those starting metals and any tips, tricks, or pitfalls I should be aware of before I start shaping hot steel. I'll also be making some turning tools so any advice related to those will be appreciated as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Last turning tool I worked on was designed to hold carbide lathe inserts for interior turning of hollow forms. The turner came to me with the request for certain bends in the shaft of the tools. I stuck some stock in the forge, got it hot, placed the hot end in the postvise and told him to grab the cold end and bend it to his requirement. He over bent it so I told him to grab it and unbend it...Next weekend I sold him his own anvil... I'd suggest learning to forge and get experience in how to work and move metal before working on a higher carbon steel project; most suggestions I could make wouldn't help much till you had the background and the frustration level can be high when projects fail for reasons you can't figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Make sure to temper the handles well, I didn't do that on my first one, and one of the handles broke off. or just don't harden the handles, but that can sometimes be difficult, or attempt to not harden the handles, and go ahead and temper them just to be safe. there's many ways to skin a cat Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Thanks for the input. Thomas, I've been working almost exclusively with high carbon steel for the past couple years, mostly making knives. While I'm far from an expert by any stretch of the imagination I can generally get the shapes I want without a lot of difficulty. What I have almost no experience in is the use of the tools, so I'm not sure about some of the details. I realize that my wording wasn't clear, but the shaping of the knife isn't my concern. It's which of those steels is a better starting material for this specific tool, how far to draw the temper after hardening, any geometry specifics that aren't obvious in pictures, and things of that nature. I probably wouldn't have thought about what littleblacksmith mentioned, so things like that are what I'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I'd go with auto coil spring as being the least amount of work to get into the shape you want, Oil quench and draw to suit yourself, I'd go dark straw on the edge blue on the back subject to seeing how the piece hardens. If it will be used for debarking or "rough work" might draw a bit more to be a tougher edge and resist chipping as much. Surprised that the "hardened tang" issue was not familiar to you from knifemaking though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Thanks again. I don't normally harden the tang on my knives and the whole piece goes into the oven for tempering, so even if it were hardened it would naturally get the same temper as the blade. The shape of the draw knife and tangs may not let me use my normal methods though, so it's a good tidbit to keep in mind for me. The way it looks to me the blade is beveled only on one side, which is the side against the wood. Is it typical for that to just be a flat grind from the spine to the cutting edge to sharpen the blade, or is it more like a chisel grind near the cutting edge for sharpening? Also some of them seem to have kind of a slight smile shape to the blade. Does that make it perform better or is that just an unimportant result of the forging process when the bevel is created? Sorry for all the questions, but like I said I have no experience using one of these and I'd rather ask the questions and put my best foot forward before starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Grind shape: Yes (I have a bunch of different old drawknives both factory and handmade and the grinds differ all over the place) Blade Curve: if you are working on flats a curve can be helpful if you are working on rounds not needed as much. I have one that has handles that can be rotated to differing angles and then locked in place with a wingnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 On this site, go to General Discussions, Book Reviews, scroll to Survivors Library. Thence, the 5th book from the top, Modern Blacksmithing and Toolsmiths and Steelworkers Manual." These are two books combined under one cover. The second book by scrolling is a good book on toolsmithing. The actual title is Twentieth Century Toolsmith and Steelworker. On page 119, there is info on making a drawknife. The only thing we don't do anymore that the author suggests, is "packing", ie. hammering at a dull red the length of the tool before hardening. It's not necessary in the light of modern metallurgy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Thanks Frank. I'll check it out. You went way above and beyond what anyone could or should expect in directing me to this information. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Draw knives are wonderful tools! IME they are very forgiving to make. Good steel is best but even something like 4140 ought to make a very serviceable blade! Various sharpening angles will work. I have many antique draw knives and most work very nicely with a little tuning up and some handle repairs! Steels like 1095 or 5160 would be very good choices! The main design features to pay attention to (IMO) are to make a stiff spine and about a 10" to 12" blade width. IME shorter blades and blades with much flex are much more difficult to use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 While I don't really have much to add about draw knives other than the bevel being the top edge on the few I have. I think you'll be farther ahead using a Froe to rough blocks of wood for the lathe. Once you can get it small enough to clear the tool rest and balanced between centers it's ready to turn. Start at a low speed, you do NOT want to be slinging chunks of wood around the shop at high speed. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 I went to an auction today and picked one up for a few bucks, so I may wait a while to forge one at this point. A froe has been on my list of things to make for a while. Maybe I'll move it up the list a bit. Just FYI and unrelated. There was a Kohlswa anvil there, which I'd say was around 100 lbs. An Ebay reseller bought it and figures he'll get about a thousand bucks out of it. I told him he was crazy and he showed me a couple in the 60 to 70 pound range that sold for more than that. I guess some people don't know you can buy them new for less than that. Maybe we should buy new anvils and immediately put them on Ebay at a premium price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 When sharpening a drawknife, the bevel on top, and a very slightly rounded bevel goes on the bottom. The bottom bevel acts as a fulcrum to give you greater control over the aggressiveness of the cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 I think I understand that. Essentially you're using the bevel to set the depth of the cut and changing the angle of the blade (riding on the bevel) to the wood to determine the "bite size." Do I have that more or less correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 14 minutes ago, Buzzkill said: I think I understand that. Essentially you're using the bevel to set the depth of the cut and changing the angle of the blade (riding on the bevel) to the wood to determine the "bite size." Do I have that more or less correct? Basically, yes. The main bevel is up at about 25 degrees. The secondary bevel is down, and little more than a few thousandths of an inch or rounding; a degree or two at most. There's some good information about both sharpening and use at this link. A properly sharpened drawknife is an amazing tool. You can hog off a LOT of material very quickly, and you can shave down to your finished surface with a lot of finesse and precision. One of my last big jobs as a custom woodworker was making a set of dining chairs whose back legs twisted over about thirty degrees while tapering in two dimensions and canting back about fifteen degrees from vertical. After struggling unsuccessfully with router jigs for a couple of days, we ended up doing the whole batch with some cardboard templates and a well-sharpened drawknife. Man, that was fun. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 JHCC, That site is incredible. Thanks hugely for the link. It will come in, very handy. Regards, SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 I'm going to echo SLAG on this. Thanks a bunch. I bookmarked that site for further in depth reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 One thing not mentioned so far is that you often draw across the surface of the work at an angle to maximize the shearing action of the blade. Handles that are obtuse to the blade make it harder to judge the depth of cut but they are easier to pull. A full 90 degree handle is generally too much for comfort. They are most effective when paired with a shaving horse which uses the person's strength to clamp the piece as hard as they are pulling the drawknife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Many years ago, I was able to visit the old Myres Saddlery in El Paso. An old timer was in an alcove in the back of the store, and he was making saddle trees with a draw knife. The two bars of the tree have a convexity, so he had the bevel facing the wood so that he could rock it out of each cut easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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