Riveting into Solid Stock?

[GoodThing Factory]

I picked up an old Walworth 24" wrench that needs some rehab - it's a great piece that cost me just about nothing so worth some time. One of the tension springs is missing I've forged and tempered a piece of spring steel to the right size but I can't figure out how to attach to the neck of the wrench - looks like the intact original side was riveted but I'm at a loss as to how to place a rivet that will hold in solid steel. Seems that w nothing to grab onto in the hole the rivet will fall out. 

I've tried spot welding but 2 tries have cracked the spring since the heat of the weld loses the temper and cracks right above the weld after just a bit of flexing. 

I'm sure there's a pretty simple solution but havent been able to find an answer

Image of the intact side below. 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[Frosty]

There's too much meat to spot weld that. Is there a clear hole? If so there are a couple possibilities, Heat up the wrench to 400-500f and drive a length of rivet stock SLIGHTLY larger in dia. into the hole and allow it to cool. This is called an "interference fit." Fit the spring and saw off the pin with 1 1/2x it's diameter above the spring. Sawn is better than snipping, the straighter the end the nicer the rivet head will turn out when peined. Once cut, pein it cold or heat it with a SMALL torch flame and pein it hot.

If you can't do an interference fit on the pin silver solder or braze it in. Just remember if you do ANY hot techniques on the pin you must let it cool or it'll run the temper out of the spring and turn it into a flappy thing.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Judson Yaggy]

Blind rivets can be made by cutting a slot in the end of the rivet and hammering them onto a wedge that fits into the slot and the bottom of the hole. 

[Smoggy]

For interference fits I usually place the components in the oven and fridge respectively........provided the wife not at home!

[GoodThing Factory]

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

There's too much meat to spot weld that. Is there a clear hole? If so there are a couple possibilities, Heat up the wrench to 400-500f and drive a length of rivet stock SLIGHTLY larger in dia. into the hole and allow it to cool. This is called an "interference fit." Fit the spring and saw off the pin with 1 1/2x it's diameter above the spring. Sawn is better than snipping, the straighter the end the nicer the rivet head will turn out when peined. Once cut, pein it cold or heat it with a SMALL torch flame and pein it hot.

If you can't do an interference fit on the pin silver solder or braze it in. Just remember if you do ANY hot techniques on the pin you must let it cool or it'll run the temper out of the spring and turn it into a flappy thing.

Frosty The Lucky.

thanks ... there's no hole now, i did dril about 1/4 in hole before welding since i figured the trying to spot weld onto the surface of the wrench was just going to incinerate the spring. the weld help fine but the spring was about as flexible as glass at least near the weld.

so the concept is heat the wrench so it expands a bit, set the rivet and then when the wrench cools the hole shrinks to secure the rivet? 

any reason i cant just drill a new hole to place the rivet? and, i assume the rivet is cold when i set into the wrench?

[oldshove]

Try running a tap in the hole cut some threads in it.Then just heat the rivet for the interference fit .

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Good Thing, 

Look up drive rivet on EB or the net . I am sure it will solve your problem. 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

[forgemaster]

As JC said drive rivets, or tap the hole and screw in a bolt tight with some thread locker on it.  Once the thread locker has gone off, cut the bolt off with only about 1/4 to 5/16" left sticking out, then cold rivet the bolt left sticking out onto the spring to hold it.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

JC has it. Drive rivets have a series of helical ribs on the outside that bite into the walls of the hole as they are driven in. Some nails are also made in a similar manner, usually used in pallets. The helical ribs besides causing a swaged fit also make it so the rivet cannot simply pull straight out, it has to twist making it that much more difficult to come out.

A small screw would also be a way to go if you have a tap, and proper size tap drill.

[GoodThing Factory]

15 hours ago, Jim Coke said:

Greetings Good Thing, 

Look up drive rivet on EB or the net . I am sure it will solve your problem. 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

 

8 hours ago, forgemaster said:

As JC said drive rivets, or tap the hole and screw in a bolt tight with some thread locker on it.  Once the thread locker has gone off, cut the bolt off with only about 1/4 to 5/16" left sticking out, then cold rivet the bolt left sticking out onto the spring to hold it.

 

38 minutes ago, BIGGUNDOCTOR said:

JC has it. Drive rivets have a series of helical ribs on the outside that bite into the walls of the hole as they are driven in. Some nails are also made in a similar manner, usually used in pallets. The helical ribs besides causing a swaged fit also make it so the rivet cannot simply pull straight out, it has to twist making it that much more difficult to come out.

A small screw would also be a way to go if you have a tap, and proper size tap drill.

thanks guys ... sounds like drive rivets is the way to go. i've got  the right size tap and die so should be pretty easy to make something from a small piece of round stock that'll do the trick. much appreciated. 

[Frozenforge]

Drive rivets are not made with a die. If i was to make a guess it would be somewhere around .5 to 1 twist per inch. The closest way to make might be to forge round stock to a hex or octagon, twist it then form the head. 

Mcmaster Carr sells them extremely cheap. 100ea 1/8" for like $2

 

[GoodThing Factory]

well ... for those of you who like to know the end of a story ... turns out whatever this wrench was made from is the hardest metal i've run into -  when i tried to drill into it i barely made a scratch and i'm using a floor drill press with a decent set of chicago latrobe bits which easily cuts through spring steel. 

so after all of your helpful comments i ended having to spot weld the spring onto the neck ...  let it cool and then tempered the welded spot. so far so good but who knows it could def crack after a some use. 

that said, i paid $2 for a nice 24" wrench that i'll def get some use out of and i learned about drive bits. 

thanks all

[Donnie]

Coining.