Please explain Anvil Identification

[Klorinth]

How do you identify an anvil that has no markings?

What do you look for to help you identify an anvil?

I picked up an anvil on the weekend that has no markings on it. If it ever did they are long since worn off. This got me to thinking about some of the comments in different identification threads. I've seen some talk about the shape of the feet, size or shape of the horn, location of the hardie hole, etc.

What else can be used to identify mystery anvils? What is unique about different common types?

The anvil I just got is probably just a temporary one. It is very old and beaten all to hell and back. Still very functional so I'm sure it will do well for me while I learn and develop some skills. I just don't plan to keep it for very long. I am sure I will find another couple and I want to know how to identify different types. The guy I bought it from is a collector and he wasn't sure what type it was. I'll post some pictures to help with explanations.

 

[njanvilman]

Actually compared to many anvils posted, your anvil is in decent shape.  True, it is worn in spots, but there is enough there to forge almost anything.  If you want to see if there are any ID markings, wire brush or wheel the side of the anvil shown in your last picture.  Also, the front edge under the horn.  Something might appear.

 

[Klorinth]

I already cleaned off the top and horn, removing the beads of metal from being used as a welding table. No way to remove the cut marks though. 

 

Looking at at it I assume the ridge along the bottom of the horn and the half moon depression on the back base are significant for ID.

What about the shape of the feet? What are different types of feet to look for?

This one has very small almost fine or delicate feet.

I should post a pic of the sides. It would explain why they is no visible writing or makers mark. It's almost shocking how much damage there is on every face. 

[Klorinth]

Here are the two large sides. The gauges are not bubbles from casting. They were made by something pointed hitting the sides repeatedly.

 

and and the damage to the top and horn is very apparent in these. 

[Dogsoldat]

Nice looking anvil.  Looks ready to go to work.  The cosmetics of the punch marks from testing tools matter not one bit. Nothing wrong with the horn either.  Just well used.  Be assured you'll put more than enough of your own dings in it over time.

[John McPherson]

The punch marks on the side were made by someone long ago "proofing" the picks and other tools heat treatment as he went, and are common.

The marks on the face and horn are more recent, made by idjits beating cold steel on the anvil. Too lazy or too stupid to build a fire and do it right.

[matto]

Looks like a mouse hole with the taper under the horn and down the legs

[Klorinth]

12 hours ago, matto said:

Looks like a mouse hole with the taper under the horn and down the legs

I think I see what you mean about the taper down the legs, and I was already thinking about it being under the horn.

What about the depression in the rear base? When I do an image search for Mousehole I can't find any with that.

The guy I got it from was pretty sure it dated to the late 1800's. It was originally owned by the father of the 70 year old guy he got it from, and was used when they got it.

[matto]

Ya I was wondering about that too.  But there were a lot of anvils made in the same area.  Can you tell if it was put in by a previous owner?  It is a descent forged anvil though. Wilkenson and Dudley come to mind.

[Klorinth]

16 minutes ago, matto said:

Ya I was wondering about that too.  But there were a lot of anvils made in the same area.  Can you tell if it was put in by a previous owner?  It is a descent forged anvil though. Wilkenson and Dudley come to mind.

It looks original to the design. Same rounding of the edges as every other edge. It looks deliberate. Not an early modification.

When did pritchel holes begin to appeal?

[Klorinth]

So I just found a few pictures of a 200# Vulcan that has a similar indentation on the back base. The legs are very different though.

[Nobody Special]

It's like looking at old cars. I don't know every antique out there, but I know a Pontiac's split grill when I see one, you just build up familiarity by reading up and looking at a bunch of them. There are literally hundreds of makers out there, but some are much more common. There's not an overwhelming number of the common brands in America, maybe a dozen or so, although even they varied in make. Say Peter Wright, Mousehole, Foster, Brooks, Hay Budden, Trenton, Southern Crescent, Vulcan, Fisher, Kohlsa, Columbians.....

You learn to look at the overall general dimensions. A general shape is a good guideline, like the skinny waists on trentons and hay buddens. Stepped feet? Probably Peter Wright, Sharp angle on the corners and a squarish feel, often an english wrought iron brand. Hundredweight markings are a dead giveaway. Shaped depressions on the bottom, the faint outline of logos on a cast anvil (fishers especially). Broken heels/horns are common to Fosters. Mouseholes had dots between the numbers. And then sometimes you just end up guessing.

Cutting steps became popular early 19th century. Wanna say 1800-ish, but I don't remember, before pritchel holes anyways. Pritchel holes took off about 1820, but......many older anvils were retrofitted with pritchels by blacksmiths. 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Postman's book "Anvils in America" has a section on how to try to identify an anvil and the number and placement of the handling holes is one of the helpful indicators.

Me, I cheat, I have drug an anvil or two to Quad-State when Postman was there and asked him!   (Peter Wright missing the entire top section from the waist on up and a Powell where the LL was missing---I was hoping for a Powers!)

[kilo66]

I have an identification question as well.  Does anyone know what the intials JAH stand for as pictured on this anvil?

[ThomasPowers]

Jymm Hoffman, I assume the A is a middle initial.  Check out his website and you can see the anvils he produces.

[Atlantic Carriage Works]

In your other group of pictures (picture 2) divide the picture in four (upper left quarter) and close to the center of the whole photo there appears to be letters very faint "X C" cant make out the rest. Have you tried chalking the marks and burnishing it highlight them? Also I have used a light from the edge or side of the anvil to highlight the words on well marked up anvils. 

Not sure if this helps but good luck   

[Spanky]

I just obtained this anvil from Craigslist.  After a good brushing I see no identifying marks.  There are three (3) Pritchel holes which makes me think “ferrier” but I would love it if anyone could help me identify it?

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Spanky, glad to have you. Are you the long quiet Spanky Smith or another one? If you'll put your general location in the header you might discover how many members live within visiting distance.

I don't know the maker unfortunately but I believe the two holes on the step are finger holes making it a bowling anvil. It's like curling, you pitch the anvil on a frozen sheet of ice and score throws according to distance from the target point. Usually a coyote.

I'm being silly, I certainly HOPE I didn't need to tell you the above is silliness! I don't even have a copy of Anvils In America so I'm afraid I'm no help unless a little comic (I hope) relief made you smile. 

Someone will be along who knows anvils I'm sure, give them a little while.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Chelonian]

That anvil looks sort of similar to one I saw for sale recently. Do you live in or near MA?

My guess for brand would be Peter Wright from the steps on the feet.

[ThomasPowers]

Need to see the underside of the base, I'd bet that there has been some serious modifications to it, I think all the Pritchel holes have been added or modified.

What are the ring and ball bearing test results?  

Always helpful to give the location of the anvil, if someone was asking about a used car identification would knowing it was located in Russia change your pool of guesses compared to being in the USA?

[Spanky]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Yes, I’m in Massachusetts; the man who sold me the anvil told me it had belonged to his grandfather in Tewksbury.

To my (decidedly inexpert) testing it has a lovely ring and excellent rebound.

The two extra Pritchel holes are very cleanly drilled through several inches of steel and it’s hard for me to imagine they were added later (did they have hardened steel bits that would do that 75-100 years ago?) but I suppose they could be.

I didn’t see any markings on the underside of the base when I brushed it up but I can try check again & post a picture tomorrow.  What am I looking for?

(PS - still having rotator cuff trouble from the last time I took my anvil bowling.  Be warned!)

[Frosty]

Sure, I have two drill presses more than 100yro. Drill bits have been around a long LONG time and any drilling necessary in an anvil would be done before the face was hardened. Where the two pritchels holes on the step are isn't hardened steel. 

Bummer about the shoulder, that's usually the result of improper follow through you know. 

Thomas is asking to see the bottom because some makers leave characteristic "signature" artefacts. A "caplet" being the most common I THINK. It's an indentation more or less the same shape as the foot. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Spanky]

Here’s the bottom of the anvil.  Does it help to identify?

[Frosty]

Ayup, that'll help.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

15 hours ago, Spanky said:

I’m in Massachusetts;

We won't remember this once leaving this post, hence the suggestion to add it in your profile. As Frosty said the picture will help by eliminating some of the manufactures that had caplets & hour glass shapes in the base. I'm another one who is thinking Peter Wright, but I've been proven wrong before.