HEAP of JEEP Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 After showing some of my early knives around, a coworker asked me to make him one of these spikes in damasacus. Pretty stoked that I got a paid job, but not exactly sure how to tackle what he wants. Its not like any knife I've made so far. On the surface, it looks pretty easy.. its just a spike... but not quite sure of the best way to get the blood groove in there. It looks like its only on one side, and my first thought is to just use a fuller, but I was also thinking it might be easier, and come out cleaner if I just make the billet, then drill it off center and cut the angles, rather than forging them. I guess either would work, but not sure which will give me a cleaner end result. Its going to be in 1080 & 15n20 and I'm thinking a nice tight twist would look pretty cool going down the spike. The ones in the picture are titanium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Looks to me like the original is done with some kind of cutter (end mill?). If you can do something similar with your Damascus billet it should show off the pattern better than forging in IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Greetings Jeep, looks to me like it was done with a ball end mill . The hardest part is to jig it up and hold downs. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Could try a burr cutter on a die grinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 The originals were machined---rod end tapered on lathe, flat machined in for the point, groove cut with a ball end mill, and what people may not have noticed (until you blow it up to full size) is the series of holes down the handle drilled through in-line for the lacing. All of that can be emulated in a forging---but---you need to clarify the customers expectations. I personally would do an upgraded "forge" version that emphasizes the fact that it was hand forged rather than machined. For example, hot-punching of the handle holes will distort the perfectly cylindrical handle unlike the drilled version and the emphasis of that could be a "feature" or improvement. However, your customer might have the perfection of the machined version in his head instead so might not like that "feature". If the customer wants an exact match, it's either machine time or a whole lot of fiddly dinking and filing to hide the forged nature (heck no!...I'd pass in that case) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoRockNazz Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'm right there with Kozzy; "educate" your customer about how their example is a mass-produced run-of-the-mill weapon, and yours will be custom forged to their specifications, dimensioned to fit their hand perfectly, etc.. I would forge as much as you can, and hand tool the rest. If they are adamant about the clean machined look... well, I would forge them the billet and hand it off to a CNC shop for the milling. Do you enjoy that type of work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Greetings Jeep.. Price is king.. If your customer expects a Damascus replication and expects to pay slightly more than the off the shelf price. Well same old song .. Happened to me hundreds of times.. Calculate your time and material than ask your customer what is the budget. Watch your backside. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEAP of JEEP Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Thanks for all the input. We spoke abut it all today, and he would like as much of it hand forged as possible, so I'm going to give it a go. We agreed on a price and he asked me to just get it as close as I can with forging it, but he definitely doesn't want a machined piece. I've got some 3/4 round stock mild steel, so I might play around with that for a night or two before I actually start on his. He would prefer that I hot punch the holes in the handle too... not quite sure how to tackle that either. I'm thinking I'll punch them while the billet is still square, and the just drift them all to size after I round it up. However it turns out, it will be a fun undertaking. He's covering the cost of the stock (plus a decent mark up), the coal, and the sanding belts, and then we agreed on a price to include my time... So no matter how much time it takes, I think I'm still coming out ahead... it might not work out to much per hour, but since I'd be forging some project during that time anyways, I figure I might as well take on the challenge. My wife's incense holder can wait a few days. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormcrow Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Interesting. What would I search for to find out more about the originals? I did a bit of searching on Google but am not turning up anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 You would not need a CNC to machine those. Just clamp in a vise, and run the ball endmill in. The tapered section will create the tapered groove look. As for how you would do it; angle grinder, die grinder, chisel, fullered while in a 60° Vee block.. As for the holes. You may want to have some pins in the holes after punching. That way if you round it up on the anvil the holes won't collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 If it's going to be pattern welded material I would skip the holes and lacing and do a coarse pattern with deep etch to provide the "grip" and show off the pattern welding more rather than hiding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Greetings Jeep, Your into the project now . Glad you got the price thing agreed on.. You might consider a tight pineapple twist for the handle . It might just show up your Damascus well .. Pictures with your progress. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEAP of JEEP Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 15 minutes ago, Jim Coke said: Greetings Jeep, Your into the project now . Glad you got the price thing agreed on.. You might consider a tight pineapple twist for the handle . It might just show up your Damascus well .. Pictures with your progress. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim That's actually a great idea. I haven't done a pineapple twist... in fact, had never even heard the term before reading about it on this forum, but since I'll be doing some practice pieces with the mild steel, I can try it a few times and bring him an example. Thanks for the idea, Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 They look to be throwing spikes; in my experience you want a fairly smooth grip to release smoothly (such that I was a bit dubious about the lacing, though the "tails" can help with no flip throwing stabilization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Looking at the point, I wonder if some sort of die would help shape the points consistently. Looks like the "bottom" 2 tapers are shorter than the "top" one with the fuller. I wonder if you had a lower die that helped shape those two tapers, the " top flat" could simply be created by hammering, then possibly fullering. I'm probably not explaining it too well. I bet someone with more experience doing die forging might be able to explain what I'm thinking a little bit better and possibly even suggest how to make the die. I have an idea on how to do the dies, but not being all that experienced in die forging, I'll leave the suggestion to others 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I hope you agreed on at LEAST 2x the price of the factory pop-outs. If you have a little pattern welded around to experiment with before starting on the spike (knife?) it'd really help you expose a spectacular pattern. As Thomas says a throwing weapon needs a smooth handle so how about this. Put a pineapple twist on the handle then grind it smooth. THAT should REALLY expose pattern. Forging the blade only wants a V swage so make one of those first. Developing good pattern in the fuller might be problematical unless you cut it. I'd use a side mill, they're MUCH more stable and controllable than an end mill but either works a charm. IF you don't have to Micky Mouse a set up. Developing pattern in a forged fuller. Hmmm, how about forging the billet into a long square. That makes it easy to pineapple twist the handle, I'd do that first. Then just grind off a good portion of the flat section of the spike and dip into the center a bit with a wheel. Now forge THAT exposed section flat using the V swage and forge the fuller. You'll be forging exposed pattern so it won't disappear and the fuller/flute should have some interesting deformation to the pattern. Remember this isn't something that starts life as a box full of cut blanks that get chucked into a CNC mill and popped out. This is a hand forged piece of art made with skill and ingenuity no machine can match. If you pull this off you WILL get orders, don't undercut yourself right off the mark! Remember how blacksmiths get sent to hell. Not the beating black iron method. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I don't think the blacksmith gets sent there for that, just the quality of their work attomaticaly goes there with either situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian923 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Please please please post pics... this sounds very interesting. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 could you use a round file???or would that not work? Littleblacksmith could you use a round file???or would that not work? Littleblacksmith could you use a round file???or would that not work? Littleblacksmith wooops didn't mean to hit enter that many times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Ok so your working on a triangle. Sorry if this was mentioned but I'm exhausted taking a break from digging ditches. I figure working on the triangle a v bottom swage would do wonders Make a hardy hole tool with a tapered triangle bottom and a round bar upper swage. Then you can forge in the round portion. Just an idea from an exhausted wulf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.