hanzosbm Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Hello all, I'm very new to blacksmithing and I'm curious about what types of little odds and ends I should pick up to make my life a little bit easier. I'm currently going through Blacksmithing 101 at the Antique Gas & Steam Engine Museum in Vista, CA. The school is very good about making sure you have everything you NEED and has you make your own tools as you progress. That being said, on a recent project I found myself trying to eyeball some lengths to make two duplicate pieces (which didn't go so well). I've also found myself trying to share a wire brush with 10 other people (it doesn't work). So, in an effort to make my life easier, I was thinking about getting some soap stone, some kind of measuring device, and a wire brush. My question is 2 parts.1) Are there any other miscellaneous little odds and ends that you think I'll want?2) Of the items I've mentioned as well as any suggestions for additional items, are there specific brands, kinds, or features I should be looking for? Thanks in advance all. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Chalk is good, so is a hook rule and a butcher block brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It may be a good idea to ask for a list of what tools they will have you making over the coming lessons,,,,,, then you can omit them from the list you are compiling, I should imagine they will be made in the order you'll be needing them.On more than one occasion I've used a piece of string to take and transfer a measurement when I've no tape or rule to hand! .......( I just know someone is going to ask the inevitable question now,,,) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) testing fifth try at the disappearing post bug:GRRRRRrrr11 tries still can't post18 and enough I give up Edited October 8, 2015 by Rashelle buggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 On more than one occasion I've used a piece of string to take and transfer a measurement when I've no tape or rule to hand! .......( I just know someone is going to ask the inevitable question now,,,)Now I have to ask is that string Metric or inches? I'm sorry just too good to let pass HanzI doubt that you will ever have everything you are going to want/need no matter how long you are in the blacksmithing event of your life. Pickup items as you go is half the "Fun" of this journey! Take your lessons watch what is used and what you wish you had and start there and work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I have an old imperial string I've had since childhood which I inherited it from my grandfather and a metric one I got as an apprentice.......at least you didn't ask how long it was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The tool you (most people, even experienced) really need is wallet adjustment. When diving in there are a few money mistakes that people often make.1) Buy what you NEED, not what you want when starting. As you get more experience you will have a far better grasp on what you "want" and will still have the money to do it.2) There is no such thing as a deal you can't pass on. Even things you need should be passed on if the deal isn't reasonable. Some sellers think an old set of "antique" tongs for example are worth big bucks and that is the kind of thing to pass on--no matter how much they say "Buy me!!!" That grinder might look really appealing on craigslist but if the price isn't right, there will always be another that comes along.3) Buy smart. Spending a bit more to get a quality tool is generally a FAR better value than getting the cheap chinese version that seems appealing for the price. Good tools last a lifetime. There are some exceptions but always keep the long-term value in mind. Good tools are also re-sellable where chinese junker tools are scrap metal. Consider resale value on the more expensive stuff--if a tool retains sale value it is actually much cheaper than it looks on the purchase end.4) With drill bits, abrasives, files, and similar ALWAYS get the good industrial brands and not the brands generally offered at the local home center The difference between a sanding belt from home depot (even with a big name brand on it like Porter Cable) and one from an industrial maker like Klingspor is night and day. Same with good drill bits from a place that caters to machinists vs the ones at the home center. Sometimes the better stuff is actually CHEAPER than the home center version--certain types of drill bits for example.5) If you have people who give you gifts, be sure you are specific if you casually mention wanting/needing something. People like to help/gift (sometime as a surprise) but don't really understand the difference between things like a 16 gauge 100 foot extension cord and the 12 gauge version you actually needed. Sounds weirdly greedy but you don't want to waste their money and effort any more than you want to waste yours. This used to happen a lot when my Father was alive--that's why I am a bit sensitive to it. There is probably more money advice but I've ranted enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) I have found old carpenter's squares cheap and then cut them down into a hook rule. I also like to use dividers to transfer measurements. You can make a set yourself easily and cheaply from sheet metal.Not knowing what type if smithing you plan to be doing means I can't guess what tools you could need. "I need a vehicle; tell me if I should get a sailboat, dumptruck, 15 passenger van or a smart car?" Edited October 9, 2015 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Get a measuring stick and a note book. Draw an outline of your anvil in the note book. Measure every distance on the anvil that is available. width of the face, length of the face, length from the heel to the near, middle, and far side of the prichel hole, length from the heel to the near, middle, and far side of the hardie hole, length from the heel to the near, middle, and far side of the step, length from the heel to the near, middle, and far side of the horn, length between the feet, etc etc. Build your projects to use these measurements. No more need for a ruler when you have your anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) testing fifth try at the disappearing post bug:GRRRRRrrr11 tries still can't post18 and enough I give upI agree NOT an improvement at all...lets try the screen shot solution since it won't let me post after 8 tries.... Edited October 9, 2015 by DSW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Don't forget you can add soapstone lines to the SIDE of your anvil to get repeatable distances for a project too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanzosbm Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Gentlemen, thank you all for the suggestions. A few points of clarification here that might help things make more sense. The school I'm at has 15-20 different anvils and students of various classes come in at different times and it's a bit of a musical chairs as far as which one you're working with that day, so knowing the measurements of 'my' anvil or marking out measurements on one doesn't really work in this situation, unfortunately.In regards to the school telling me which tools I'll need and instructions on how to make them, they will indeed do all of that. So things like hardy tools, punches, etc I'm not too worried about here. However, as we are not typically allotted the time for finishing work, I have been giving some thought to a bench vice and some files to clean up my work at home. But that's a thread for another day.Finally, in regards to what kind of work I'll be doing, that is an excellent question, and at this point, I don't have an answer. I'd love to get into bladesmithing, but given that I live in a small apartment, the amount of tools and supplies necessary for working on the handles would likely take up more room than I have making it prohibitive at this time. At this point, I think I'll pick up a hook rule, some soap stone or silver pencil, and a butcher block brush. I figure anything else I might need down the road will become obvious. I just wasn't sure if there was some glaring oversight that I might as well get now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 ,,,,,the only other items that come to mind are the glaringly obvious PPE, goggles, gloves, footware, ear protection and an apron if you can lay your hands on one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanzosbm Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yep, got all of that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) A steel rule with magnetic strips glued to the under side lets you stick it to the anvil face or side as necessary AND take it with you.If you're estimating the amount of stock you need to reproduce an item, weigh it, add some for scale loss. It won't matter how intricate or convoluted a shape. Your need for estimation then is how much scale loss it will suffer. Really makes things easier.Diviers, scribes, etc. inside, outside calipers, etc. All are valuable additions to your kit.Frosty The Lucky. Edited October 9, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 it's a bit of a musical chairs as far as which one you're working with that day, so knowing the measurements of 'my' anvil or marking out measurements on one doesn't really work in this situation, unfortunately.I'm sure you can mark dimensions on the anvil you are using for the day. Just make sure to "erase" all other marks so you don't get confused what marks are yours and what marks are someone elses. After all it's just chalk. That's one of the things that makes soap stone so nice. I mark and erase many distance marks on my anvil over the course of a day, depending what I'm making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanzosbm Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm sure you can mark dimensions on the anvil you are using for the day. Just make sure to "erase" all other marks so you don't get confused what marks are yours and what marks are someone elses. After all it's just chalk. That's one of the things that makes soap stone so nice. I mark and erase many distance marks on my anvil over the course of a day, depending what I'm making.My apologies, I don't think I originally understood your suggestion. Yes, I could definitely do that. In fact, I think that might be the best way to start off since I'm getting a bit lost looking at all these different hook rules. As I need to stay fairly mobile with all of this stuff, I can just toss a tape measure in my bag, mark out lengths that I'll need for that day on the anvil, and then use those marks to lay out my work. It's technically one small additional step, but it's free, easy to transport, and is a good first step while I get a better feeling for what I really want. Regarding calipers, dividers, and scribes, I'd LOVE to get a good set of all of the above. That might be round 2 of my purchases. At this point, I'm not sure that my skill is high enough to warrant checking those small figures. But, when I get better and/or start doing more finish work with either files or a grinder, they will be absolutely necessary. I might also want something that will allow me to measure given angles. For the time being with simple measurements I can go all Pythagorean on it, but later, it'd be nice to know if two pieces had the same angle bend. A lot of this came out of my very first project making a set of BBQ tongs. The necessity of getting both sides perfectly even but without any kind of measuring or marking instruments was frustrating. I have an engineering background, so my little OCD mind was going nuts knowing how I COULD make them better if I had the tools I wanted. They turned out okay in the end, but they could've been better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 This is what I'm thinking about as far as calipers. The ones without the center screw also work well, though they can occasionally be harder to find. Those are easy to make yourself however. Dial calipers are nice, but not really needed for most of what you will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 They look like a functional set of tongs, pleasing on the eye and likely in the hand......not a bad effort by any standard for an initial forging! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Those look like a fine pair of tongs. You're blacksmithing, forget the dial indicators. Eyeball against a couple story marks. A LOT of my work starts out marked on the edge of my anvil using one side or the other of the hardy hole or far edge of the anvil as the mark. The hardy hole gives me 4 different distances, two off the sides and two off the tail. The prichel is another but I don't use it as often.A pair of tongs like those are simpler than they look. Forge the feet first. (grippy part you snag the hot dogs with) The next step is the flattened spring section. While cool balance it on your finger and mark that spot with a chisel, center punch or if you want to be properly OCD about it, a tap on a cold hardy. Mark the spot, heat it and draw it into the flat spring keeping it even.Bend the spring around and finish shape the arms. Viola!Easier than it looks, honest. I got into smithing for two main reasons: playing with fire and hitting things of COURSE and secondly. I grew up with micrometers, calipers, height, depth, etc. gauges galore. I was probably the only 3rd. grader who could read a vernier caliper. Anyway, I like smithing because it's mark one eyeball and tactile, a quick swipe with a piece of soap stone is good enough. It was a HUGE relief.Frosty The Lucky. Edited October 10, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanzosbm Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Smoggy, thank you for the kind words. I view these early projects as methods of learning certain techniques. Overall, I was pretty happy with the tongs, though now, I certainly see room for improvement, but that's the idea. Frosty, you're right, it isn't a terribly difficult project to get done, but the devil is in the details. For instance, keep in mind that I had no soap stone, so while drawing out the center, the point of balance constantly changed. And trying to balance it while hot isn't easy and constantly quenching to check was a time suck. The bigger problem, however, were the arms. Knowing how far down to make the first and second bends as well as to what angle to make them to ensure that they were symmetrical purely by eye wasn't easy. I would've liked to have been able to at least mark the metal at arbitrary, equal point for bends. Even drawing an outline on the anvil to try to match would've been nice. I understand that the concepts being taught don't require the finished result to be perfect, but like my grandfather used to say, 'if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 You can notch with a file to mark or even scratch with a rock though that's pretty hard to see. Once you start drawing the spring section you don't balance it on your FINGER. <sigh> Use a piece of 1/2" sq. it's flat so you're not working to microscopic precision but narrow enough to be pretty accurate.Once the spring is turned make sure the tips meet evenly. Open the vise jaws to the arms just slip between them. Heat the arms where you want the outward bend slip them into the vise and spread the arms. Select an inner form the width of the wide place. Heat that part of the arms slip it over the new die and bend them till they're what you want.If you're making a run then bend specialty bending forks for the hardy hole, one to open, one to close. the trickiest thing then is remembering to lay them in the right order for the next tong.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 If I'm marking on the stock I tend to use a center punch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanzosbm Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Agreed Frosty, but at the time, the only tools available to me were that one piece of steel, the Forge, the anvil, and my hammer. Thomas, you make a good point, a center punch might be a good thing to pick up as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 No...MAKE a center punch.....and some punches .......and some hardy tools.....and some bolt tongs....and............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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