Stainless Steel

[remist17]

I was given some 316 stainless steel rod. One section of rod is about 2 feet long and is 1/2" thick the other is 18" long and about 1/4" thick. Can I use stainless steel in the forge? can it be made for any punches?  if so what heat treat does it need.

 

Thanks

[Frosty]

You can forge 316 but do a lot of test work before you try making something you want to keep or sell. It's really heat sensitive and has a narrow working range. It has a serious learning curve, be patient it's only steep if you hurry.

Naw, it's not very good for things like punches, chisels, etc. I don't believe it'll harden worth beans. It's really good for other tools though, ever work glass? polished it's good glass tooling. Same for pottery and such.

I'd have to look it up so I won't say it's good for food prep but maybe. A web search should cover food contact suitability.

Nice all weather and outdoor applications though. It's long time shiny goodness is legendary. Nice wind vanes, door furniture, etc. 1/2" rd. is a little small but certainly good to have on the racks especially once you learn to work it. Good stuff good score.

Frosty The Lucky.

[T.J.watts]

316 is a food grade stainless and its not going to harden well

[Kozzy]

I won't speak to hand forging because I haven't done that on stainless with a hammer---but in an industrial process we do you have to get it quite hot or it tends to crack (type 304)

Put a magnet on it.  If the magnet either doesn't stick or barely sticks, it's 300 series and won't harden.  It will work-harden with repeated cold blows and bending but that is not the kind of hardening you need for tooling--it just makes further working a b***tch.  As 300 series stainless work hardens it becomes slightly magnetic.  If you see a tiny bit of magnetism, it's probably the result of some work hardening when the round bar was drawn.

If a magnet sticks, it's probably 400 series stainless.  That can be hardened.  It's not the greatest when hard but it's enough for a basic knife edge..not really good enough for punching tools.

(added for general knowledge just in case the stainless is unknown in the future)

It won't really be stainless any more after you forge it unless you exclude all oxygen from the process.  It'll be "mostly stainless" but more prone to rusting and some other metal problems.  Oh...and with any stainless steel, remember that it's called stainLESS, not stainproof for a reason:  It can get some basic surface "rusting" in certain cases.

But the real answer...heat it, whack it, learn.  You might like it or you might hate it but either way it'll improve your experience level.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Kozzy

[Alan Evans]

Yes you can forge it. It is about twice as resilient to the hammer as mild steel...you have to hit it twice as as hard to move it the same amount as mild steel.

It work hardens more rapidly than mild steel. You will feel the hammer start to bounce and make little impression as it loses colour. If you keep workin it at black heat you will have problems with it shearing / splitting.

You cannot harden 316 by heat treatment. It is at its softest if you quench it from red heat. Useful to remember if you wish to subsequently drill or file or tap post forging.

You can use it for punches but they will not be super hard. If you are careful with your heat and use graphite they can be used to punch stainless without any transference / contamination by iron.

If you forge it on a steel anvil with a steel hammer you will contaminate the surface and reduce its ability to form the chrome oxide layer which gives it its stainless qualities. If it is to be used outside you need to passivate it after forging to remove the iron from the surface, otherwise it will rust.

Because it work hardens you must never let a hacksaw or file drag across the surface. Similarly when drilling the rule is "high feed low speed". Make sure you maintain a constant cutting pressure, never let the drill rub, when you start to press again the work hardened stainless can take the edge off the drill.

Always use/reserve fresh stainless grinding and sanding discs, not ones you have previously used on mild steel. And avoid spraying the stainless with mild steel grinding dust. Cover it up to protect it from grinding dust in the workshop and rack it on plastic or wooden supports.

Alan

[remist17]

thank you all. I know its 316SS, work has material certs on everything. Really appreciate the replies. I am trying to find stuff to make tooling and keep striking out. Scrap yards say no and cant find any axels yet. Can I make a cut off hardy from a old pry bar? I found a section of truck leaf that I was thinking on trying.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2015 by remist17

[ThomasPowers]

Pry bars are generally medium carbon steel and will make a hardy.  Have you called tool rental places and asked about broken jackhammer bits?  I made a hardy I have been using for close to 20 years now by taking the broken off end of a jackhammer bit and forging the broken section down to fit my anvils' hardy hole.  I retouch the edge as needed.

Truck spring will work too but be harder to form to shape.  I like using scrap that is already shaped like I need it to be!  More time having fun and less time doing grunt work on it.

[Borntoolate]

I have a section of 347 that is basically about a 1/2" thick piece of 6 inch pipe.  Started out as a rough cut ring...   So far I have managed to make it straight and have squared it up a bit.   But dang it is a workout!   It will probably take so many heats with my hand hammer that it will probably be something other than what it is by the time I make anything much from it.   I am not sure it is worth the effort!   

[remist17]

I will call around to some of the machine rental places. Around here it seems no one is willing to part with anything unless it's top dollar. But it does not hurt to ask. I can get a few digging irons (6ft bar used to pry rocks or make holes) for $2 a bar. I was thinking to use the one end as its already cut to a chisel point. What tempering would do. Assume oil quench after non metalic then in the oven 400 degrees??

[Charlotte]

I've had good luck buying worn out jackhammer bits at home depot.  Also check the discount chains like Big Lots.  I bought a 5 Chinese crowbars from them years ago that may be just straight 1045 forged out hex later on I bought a spud par that is certainly 1045 from the way it forged and behaved in hardening test.

I don't mind paying 5 bucks for 2 lbs or so of tool steel even if it is not really S7

 

[ThomasPowers]

After an oil quench I would draw temper until it was as hard as YOU like it.  Personally I like my tooling a bit soft as I am allergic to shrapnel and have way too many students come through the shop.  Can't give you a colour or temperature to draw too without knowing the alloy.

[remist17]

keep getting the forbidden message, i will try shorter reply.   Harbor freight has 2# hammer for $2. Can I make into a cut off ?

 

Edited September 16, 2015 by remist17

[ThomasPowers]

Yes; but why not try a broken bit---metal for lots more tools as well as a hardy.

[Charles R. Stevens]

A 2# hammer makes a ok hot or cold set, if you are swinging a sledge at it, try somthing smaller for hand held top tools

[remist17]

Understood. So what are the thoughts on the harbor freight ball pein? They say alloy steel.... i am not sure what that means. alloy is normally a stainless steel of sort in the industry I work in. I would read this as stainless steel heads. 

 

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

I would read it as anything other than strait carbon steel. Just a WAG, SAE 6040 makes a good hammer head, so somthing of that breed, may be. 

Rivit hammers are the size, small hand axe heads are the right shape as well. The mudflap hangers on OTR trucks are 3/4" spring and make dandy tools

[Buzzkill]

Charles,

You seem to have used a lot of materials I have access to - related to trucking.  Have you used S cams for any tool making and/or do you have an idea of the typical steel used in those?  I've poked around on the net, but haven't found what steel is used to make them yet.  I haven't contacted the manufacturers by phone, but I guess that's the next step after this..

FWIW the coiled springs in air brake chambers we talked about a while ago appear to be 5 feet long when uncoiled.

[remist17]

I am thinking about trying a cut off from a truck spring. i have a brand new set in the barn that I just never put on a truck for the past 10 years. I am sure it is on the site, I am assuming heat to non magnetic, quench in oil, temper at 350 to 375F for 1 hour?? 

Called three places that rent tools. NONE will sell me broken bits, they say safety reasons they cannot. So they would rather pitch them in the garbage.

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Sounds like you are drawing a knife and not a hot cut.  I'd draw  quite a bit further than that

[Stash]

You can get all the broken bits you want if you ask the right people. I rent a lot of equipment and when I return it, I talk to my buddy at the desk, or the guys back in the shop. They will point me in the right direction, even walking out there with me and helping me load my truck. It helps to provide coffee, donuts or some kind of liquid refreshment every now or then. Calling cold won't get you anything. You need to meet and get to know the people who have the real power.

 

Steve

[Frosty]

See if I can get through without being forbidden . . . AGAIN!

The folk at the counter of a rental center can't sell you broken tools, it's a liability issue. If they sold something broken and the person tried to use it as designed guess who'd lose in court.

However if you talk to the guys out back, the guys who work on and maintain the equipment a few bucks or box of doughnuts and they just might not notice someone walking out with one of those heavy old broken pieces of junk. Heck, just do a little dumpster diving even. I got a couple spade bits for $1.00 ea. donated to the coffee fund. The next time I dropped by I discovered two dropped in the back of my pickup when I wasn't looking and I was there to rent a blade trimmer.

You can also find pry, crow, pinch, spud, etc. bars at garage, yard, etc. sales for darned cheap. Believe me a 25lb. spud bar makes an awful LOT of outstanding medium carbon tools.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Around hear S cams are more valuable as rebuildable cores, so I havent played around with them. Brake cans, springs, axles, mudflap hangers... 

Amother thing all together

[DSW]

The folk at the counter of a rental center can't sell you broken tools, it's a liability issue. If they sold something broken and the person tried to use it as designed guess who'd lose in court.

However if you talk to the guys out back, the guys who work on and maintain the equipment a few bucks or box of doughnuts and they just might not notice someone walking out with one of those heavy old broken pieces of junk. Heck, just do a little dumpster diving even. I got a couple spade bits for $1.00 ea. donated to the coffee fund. The next time I dropped by I discovered two dropped in the back of my pickup when I wasn't looking and I was there to rent a blade trimmer.

I have found the same thing. You need to talk to the workers, not the office staff. It also can help if you explain what you want the stuff for. Around here there are a lot of scrap hounds. Guys get a little tired of people who show up and expect them to simply give away stuff that can get sold for cash. These people can become pests, taking time away from jobs that need to get done. However if you are willing to pay, or show that you aren't there for a freebie, and explain what you are going to do with the stuff, You may have better luck.

 

Like many things, getting to know the guys will help. Swing in regularly, bring coffee/donuts, talk to the guys but only if they aren't busy, and you may find things set aside for you.

[remist17]

OK. I tried searching for heat treat of leaf spring I did not find much. What I found is heat to orange, quench on oil, draw out to a straw color at edge. Is this about right?

[Buzzkill]

I believe what TP is telling you is that temper would be good for a knife blade, but you probably want to take more hardness out and gain more toughness for a hot cut.  So, higher temperature when tempering.  If you're cutting anything other than small pieces the temper may change in use anyway.  I'm not sure you even need to harden it if you're cutting exclusively hot metal, but someone with more knowledge than me will probably chime in.