Stock steel prices.

[Stephen Jones]

Ive just ordered 2 meter os 40mm solid square bar £15,  a month back a meter of square bright bar 1 3/4 £50.

Am I paying to much?

What do you pay for steel? 

Would it be worth while us using the same supplier as much as we can and asking for an IFI discount?

 

 

[the iron dwarf]

bright is more expensive than hot rolled generally, what grade was it?

[Stephen Jones]

bright is more expensive than hot rolled generally, what grade was it?

​I have absolutely no idea. I know that even with a good heat its still like hitting a solid not for moving bit of steel

 

[ThomasPowers]

Have you done a spark test or a Heat-Quench_Break test on the hard to forge piece?

[Frosty]

Is "Bright bar" still listed as available where you ordered it? If so there should be analysis information about it on the site.

Not being familiar with how steel is described where you bought it I have to speak metaphorically using American terms. Here there are two basic grades of mild steel "hot rolled" and "cold rolled". Hot rolled is sold as it comes from the rolling mill with a layer of mill scale. Cold rolled on the other hand is pickled to remove the mill scale and ground to a close tolerance of the specified dimension. This gives it a shiny steel finish and is perhaps is called "Bright" where you buy it. It IS more expensive due to the additional processing.

The pickled and ground finish disappears as soon as you put it in the forge and bring it to forging heat.

The above is speculation, you may have purchased a high carbon or tool steel. I'm afraid you'll have to research it with the supplier unless someone close to you knows and jumps in with the answer.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

However most of the blademakers I l know have had at least 1 time where a steel warehouse has shipped them the wrong steel for an order and so if it's working weird not believing the specs and testing may be in order

[the iron dwarf]

frosty is close, here

hot rolled mild steel is the bulk of steel sold

bright at most stock holders here is a bright mild steel that could be pickled to remove scale then rolled cold so it is a bit work hardened and is to a close tolerance, it can also be turned or ground without pickling, all has a bright finish and is a lot closer tolerance.

then there are the hundreds of grades of more specialized steels you can get as 'bright'

generally bright is unless specified a cold finished mild steel that is more consistent, slightly harder and more accurate than the cheaper plain hot rolled mild.

if you need a particular grade order it

[Stephen Jones]

im pretty sure they said it was bright mild steel

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

He k, it could even be stainless, most of that stuff just snikers at you when you smak it with a 4# hand sledge!

[Alan Evans]

For comparison, have a look at parkersteel website, they have a pretty comprehensive stock and the prices are calculated based on quantity...also f.h. Brundle have prices listed.

if you are not buying full lengths though you will likely be paying a hefty premium. £45 for a length of 40mm square sounds a fairly good price to me though...can't remember how much I paid last unfortunately.

if you are only after short lengths, why not get in touch with a local BABA member and get some from him?

Depending where you are, Dyfed steel are very competitive.

Alan

[arftist]

Cold finished mild steel is significantly harder than mild steel.

You might not be getting it hot enough. 

[Dan P.]

Best prices I've gotten for mild was direct from TATA, who see fit to undercut their own local stockholders? I don't know if they have a limited catchment area though (S. West/ S.Wales?).

 

[Dan P.]

PS I don't know if they do bright rolled m/s, and they require you to open an account.

[Gergely]

Hi Stephen,

I really don't mean to teach or preach but if you are a beginner at blacksmithing it could be enough to pound on 6-25 mm dia stocks. That 45 mm square bright stuff you mention there can be a real joy killer if you don't have the basic skills (and environment) required to heat stock that large. Even if it's mild steel.

You can do so much from 10x10 or 12x12 mm stock and while you do it you will learn the how-to-s for bigger stuff. And if you need something like a cut-off hardy you can always find out something. I really liked and marvelled Th. Powers' idea about welding a piece of angle iron on a shank (ie. piece of chanel) and grinding it sharp - It's totally usable and simple. I myself use a hardy made from a pick axe head - it's not a beauty but works like a charm.

Just my 2 pennies here.

Bests

Gergely

[Crantius]

What about shapes - is square typically cheaper than round/hexagonal?

Can I expect there to be an avg per pound price or is there a premium on larger diameters at same weight?

[Stephen Jones]

Gergely. I bought the 1 3/4" with the plans at trying to reduce it to 1 1/2" as thats the size of my hardie hole.  The reason I'm buying the 40 mm is to draw it out a little so its fits the hardie then I can weld on to it. But as you said that big stuff is a huge buzz kill. One day though Ill master it and then might be able to use it. For now I chalk it up to a noob mistake. For now though I'm playing around with 1/2" coil and some old leaf springs I've been given:~)

[Charles R. Stevens]

Fullers big hammers and plenty of heat are the secrest to bigger stock (helps with the smaller stuff to) something a simple as a price of rod bent in a "Z" Laing on th anvil like an anvil devil, bent to fit in the prichel or bent double in the hardy hole and laying over the sweet spot will work, more practice and the rounded anvil edges will work. Some one you can bribe to swing 3k sledge helps too, lol

[Stephen Jones]

charles  i use a 7 pound hammer my problem before was lack of heat and lack of knowledge i have the ability to make the heat now (stuid ash gate). So when I get a chance ill have a good attempt at breaking the stuff

[Charles R. Stevens]

I try not to swing my heavy hammer solo, lol i can wail along with a 3# for a couple of hours no problem. Now that you have the heat issue, how about your swing? Are you chokes up making a lot of short strokes or are you making full acuret blows? I like the way the 3# moves metal over my 2# but if I couldn't confortabley swing it full and hard full the full heat and atleast 5 or 6 heats i would use the 2# hammer ( I tend to switch out after lunch, lol) now I use a 2 & 1 1/2# rounding hammers on the shoeing truck 

[Alan Evans]

What about shapes - is square typically cheaper than round/hexagonal?

Can I expect there to be an avg per pound price or is there a premium on larger diameters at same weight?

In simple terms (which always leave room for inaccuracy )

​Black round and square and flat are pretty much sold on weight and are much the same rate per kilo for the given steel specification.

Hexagonal mild steel is normally bright drawn free machining (for use in machining centres to make nuts).

Octagonal section is often black rolled, but higher carbon /alloy / tool steel. Think cold chisels and crow bars.

If you want Hexagonal or Octagonal in mild steel, forge your own, it looks much better to my eye and feels much better to my hand. If forged from a round parent you can leave soft corners/aris for handrail and handle purposes...

It is sold by weight by a steel stockholder. But if you are not buying 6.1 metre (20') random lengths you are liable for all sorts of cutting and shipping charges on top.

Alan

Edited May 31, 2015 by Alan Evans

[Stephen Jones]

 

It is sold by weight by a steel stockholder. But if you are not buying 6.1 metre (20') random lengths you are liable for all sorts of cutting and shipping charges on top.

Alan

​Thats a handy thing to know Alan. I can buy steel to be imported here without a cutting charge. But knowing that might save me a few quid back in the UK.

[the iron dwarf]

most sections of mild are in 6.1m  or 20 foot lengths, most bright is in 3m or 10 foot lengths nominally in the uk.

tube is often in 7.5m or 24 foot lengths.

I can carry 6.1m on my van but have to position it right to not have too much overhang

[Charles R. Stevens]

Some times is advantagius to hang the stock under the vehicle to get the overhangs with in leagal limits.

around here some of the oilfeild trucks have hangers off the pasangerside, one at the rear bumper, between the bed and cab and off the front bumper to avoid lifting things to an overhead rack. 

[Gergely]

Gergely. I bought the 1 3/4" with the plans at trying to reduce it to 1 1/2" as thats the size of my hardie hole.  The reason I'm buying the 40 mm is to draw it out a little so its fits the hardie then I can weld on to it. But as you said that big stuff is a huge buzz kill. One day though Ill master it and then might be able to use it. For now I chalk it up to a noob mistake. For now though I'm playing around with 1/2" coil and some old leaf springs I've been given:~)

​ I totally understand the story. Guess how I know that big stock is not for begginners. I knew zilch about blacksmithing, I haven't even got usable coal in my forge, because I haven't found its source yet, no experience on metalworking at all whatsoever. Yet I wanted to shape 80 x 14 mm leafspring stock into a certain African axe. It was educational, I can tell. 

But you know what, two years later I'm going to shape 34 mm thick truck spring stock and an other ~25 mm thick truck spring stock, and it may be succesful. I have a striker coming to hit with the 5 and 8 kg sledges, I have done my prework in the last 5-6 days and still doing it. I made tools for this project, and my fire is going to bite (I hope so). 

So nevermind, mistakes are to learn from them. And you really never know what you're gonna use that big bar. But sometimes it just gonna be needed.

So happy hammering!

Gergely

[Stephen Jones]

Got the 40mm square bar. The idea is it should fit the hardy. One problem. I didn't realise how long 2meters is. For a noob like me. Its huge. So lots of stock now. Buying no more for a while.