I'm looking for advice on water quinchable steel for making blades. I'm going to be doing some stock removal blades and wanted to use water instead of oil for my quinch. 

 

Thank you 

 

Scott

good luck,  there is plenty of information already posted about simple carbon steels, like 1045 to 1070 or a W series for your best bet.  If you really want advise? Dont use water, read more learn more and learn more.   Not sure what else you are asking about?

Just curious why you're wanting to avoid quenching in oil.

What you are looking for is not existing to my knowledge!  There are air quenched and oil quenched steels that make good blades!  Many steels are water quenched in large hunks... for anvils or hammers.  This does NOT work well for the thin cross sections of most blades!  Steels with very low amounts of carbon can be hardened a little by quenching in water or even super quench... they still make marginal quality cutting edges!  Railroad spikes and mild steels are examples.  

Here is some info on W1 tool steel.

http://www.speedymetals.com/information/Material71.html

When I talked with the materials engineer for Nicholson files he wouldn't tell me the exact alloy they used in their machinist files, but he did say if you treated files like water hardening tool steel you would be OK.

BFN; japanese swords are traditionally quenched in water; they get away with it by using a medium carbon steel for the edge. (all that folding and welding *drops* carbon content!)

Scot there is a heat treat app for I phone and android it's a great tool. If your just starting out 1084 is a great steel. You  can quench it in canola oil successfully. As far as  water quench w1 w2. But I will say do your home work before beginning with w series steels as they are not as easy to work at first.American bladesmith. Society has all kinds of info that will help.make sparks!

 

scott gallagher

I reckon that's true Thomas and I've heard that some damascus swords were quenched in boy's urine.  Still... it seems doubtful to me that BM454 would be up to the tasks of making either type of steel used in those examples!  I did not realize that W steels were water "quinchable".  I have certainly "quinched" my share of steel in water... but NOT while making high quality blades or other very sharp cutting tools.  

W1 - water quenched

O1- oil quenched

A2- air hardening

H13-hot work tool steel

S7 -shock resistant

Kind of a pattern with the letter designations.......

Edited April 30, 201511 yr by BIGGUNDOCTOR

Thank you all. 

Except those quench designations are based on 1" sq cross sections---is your blade edge 1" thick?  For knife thicknesses it often slides them one category up and if you start having problems with cracking or warping it's good to remember this!

BigFootNampa, actually the quenching in a boy's urine comes from Divers Arts written by Theophilus. a German Monk, around 1120 A.D. He also mentions using the urine of a goat fed ferns for 3 days and gives instructions on how to go about getting it.  For a  number of odd quenchants there is a Renaissance list republished in "Sources for the History of the Science of Steel" C.S.Smith all claimed to make your steel harder and whiter!  (Radish juice and worm water anyone?)

I have an old blacksmithing book that advocates using mercury to achieve the hardest edges possible!

Imagine a quench bucket full of mercury!  Wow, times sure were different...

and molten lead for tempering springs. For a real "expendable apprentice" technique look into fire gilding...

I agee with Thomas - Even though W1 and W2 are 'water quench', the thin sections sued in knives still respond better to oil quenches

I mentioned that too, but some figure it can be fun to find out the hard way

Personally I think goats fed on fresh clover give urine that is just as good for quenching!  Though I haven't really tested this theory!

And you haven't had to go and learn the hard way Steve?! Lol your at least as hardheaded as I am and it took me a few years to get "learn from others mistakes" thing down. Not the mention keeping my mouth shut and listen to the "old men" tho I still check for BS in the privacy of my own shop. When in doubt always ask the steel!

 

Ferns definitely affect the pH pf the output---probably more than the hair colour does.

 (Radish juice and worm water anyone?) Add some Rum and that sounds like a sailors drink.

Except those quench designations are based on 1" sq cross sections---is your blade edge 1" thick?  For knife thicknesses it often slides them one category up and if you start having problems with cracking or warping it's good to remember this!

BigFootNampa, actually the quenching in a boy's urine comes from Divers Arts written by Theophilus. a German Monk, around 1120 A.D. He also mentions using the urine of a goat fed ferns for 3 days and gives instructions on how to go about getting it.  For a  number of odd quenchants there is a Renaissance list republished in "Sources for the History of the Science of Steel" C.S.Smith all claimed to make your steel harder and whiter!  (Radish juice and worm water anyone?)

​

hmm I wonder if radish juice is an antiscorbutic ?

What about all the legends about quenching blades in virgin blood?!?!

good luck finding any of them virgins.

Edited June 3, 201511 yr by Steve Sells

What about all the legends about quenching blades in virgin blood?!?!

​If I understand correctly, blood is basically salt water with stuff in it.

Blood is rather a weak brine and acts like it save for the extra mess and having to use it before it clots; urine too and while easier to collect and store it does have a most amusing smell when you quench a hot blade into stale urine.

BTW I don't recall virgins being specified in all the historical blood quenching legends 

TP , so if you quickly wrap it in a wet nappy(i know it will be difficult to find cloth nappy users) you'll be using 'virgin urine' right? And does that "work better"?