Diamond Finial

[01tundra]

I'm getting ready to make a hearth fire wood rack and I'd like to finish the top of the vertical supports similar to an old tool set I bought years ago.

I'll be using 3/4" square bar stock for the four vertical supports and would like to finish the tops with something close to the diamond shaped finial shown below.

I'm going to have to do this by hand (no power hammer) and was looking for some input on how others would attempt this.

My initial thought would be to fuller the tops of the bars about 1-1/2" from the top and then hold the bars on the edge of the anvil almost vertical at the fullered notch and form the lower and upper angled portion of the four sides.  Not sure if I'm explaining that accurately enough to follow, I'll try to come up with a rough sketch shortly.

The only other thing I could think of would be to fabricate a die to form them in?

Thanks.

 

Edited March 4, 2015 by 01tundra

[billyO]

I think you have the right idea, just need to find the correct angle to hold the bar off the edge of the anvil.  You may find that you need to do a blunt point first to avoid fishlips.

[norrin_radd]

This may not be something you're interested, in but Gary Huston on youtube has a video on a "handle or foot cheat" that he uses a bolt on the end of his work piece to make something similar to what your are showing. I think it is a pretty good idea, but it may not be suitable for your application, just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[01tundra]

That's ^ a really cool idea, thanks for posting it. 

I'd want to steer clear of zinc coated nuts due to possible fumes, but black steel would work great.

I bet you could make great acorns using that method.

Edited March 4, 2015 by 01tundra

[norrin_radd]

No problem, I've been wanting to try this for a while but was also concerned about the zinc coating. I wonder if you could burn it off outside some how and make it safer. Don't know if the local hardware stores carry black steel nuts & bolts.

[arkie]

Just soak the bolt/nut in vinegar for a few hours.  The zinc will disappear and you are good to go!  Don't try to burn it off.

Quicker in muriatic acid, but messier, more expensive and more care has to be taken with the acid.

[DSW]

If you look for "structural" nuts, like A563 or ASTM A194, you can usually find these readily available in standard carbon steel at places like Fastenal or other industrial suppliers.

[wpearson]

look by the anchor bolts in lowes, hd ,or others.

[Jim Coke]

Greetings 01,

Forming that finial is not hard. I have done many by simply using a brick with the desired base radius and rotation 90 degrees and forging just like you do a ball.  To add an additional feature you can take the triangle to new heights by forming an octagon on the top with light forging and a file..  The main trick is to keep your stock at a 45 degree angle while forging.  Alternate forging at 180 degrees until the diamond takes shape...  Give her a wack...

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

Forgot to add ... If you want the volume start with a big up set..    Good luck

 

 

[Rashelle]

Brian Brazeal has a you tube video forging a hexagonal ball finial. You can use the same concept to form your diamond. Like Jim said give it a try, maybe do some smaller practice pieces.

 

[HWooldridge]

There are two issues here - the extra volume needed for the finial and forming the pyramid point.  The bolt idea is a good one but you would still have to forge the body to square.  Should be faster to wrap a small collar and forge weld it to your square stock.  With regard to the diamond, it is easy to use top and bottom swages (Smithin' Magician or separate tools) with the correct angle.  You  pinch the stock and get a small waste piece on the back of the dies but the finials will be very uniform.

[01tundra]

I do have a Yesteryear G2 guillotine tool that I was planning to use to fuller the bar down below the diamond. 

[Jim Coke]

Greetings 01,

Your good to go with your G2..  Do not fuller too much the diameter will shrink while forming ... Also draw down the shaft side some at your lower fuller point. It will help with your stock angle...  Again good luck and you will find its easy... Pictures with your progress

Forge on and make beautiful things

JIm

 

[01tundra]

After experimenting some I've decided not to do an exact diamond, I could choke up on the fuller and get the diamond, but I kind of like this version better.

I forged the point first, then fullered the neck.  This is a trial run on scrap so I didn't take the time to finish it fully.

Jim - Good advice on not to fuller too much.  The first try I fullered first and went a little too thin, it ended getting really thin and twisting and turning into a big mess by the time I finished forging the point.

 

Edited March 8, 2015 by 01tundra

[SpankySmith]

I like, nice work

[norrin_radd]

looks really good

[Dogsoldat]

So is that  textured between dies of some sort.  and if so be curious to se the tooling to do it.

 

[Frosty]

That's a nice looking finial but I think you're giving up too soon on the diamond or pyramidal finial.

Do you have an arc welder? If so think about welding a shank on a piece of cut down angle iron. One flange shortened and rounded to make the finial's neck the other left long for the point. A little time on the anvil will close up the die to the desired angle and some file work will clean up the bottom of the angle. Or you could just weld up the die from plate. This die is held in the post vise or hardy at an angle to allow the hammer to strike directly into it against the backer of the vise or anvil with the piece's neck off the edge.

That's just my wild brain hair putting pictures in my head were I trying it.

Frosty The Lucky.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Frosty

[DavidTodtman]

Frosty, are you able to post a picture of what you are describing? Thanks.

 

[Frosty]

I don't know if I remember what I was thinking. I can see the logic in what I wrote but no pictures are coming up. I'll have to imagine making a diamond or pyramidal finial and see what my brain comes up with. If the mental image comes in focus I'll sketch it up this time.

No guarantees but I'll brainstorm it and see if it comes back to me.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Don't forget the possibility of rounding  a section with a fuller and then twisting the top 45 deg so it shows up on edge---and wider too.  More work but something not out of a catalog---yet.