Clay Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Well, first of all I'd like to say hello. I'm new to the site and I'm still building my forge. Right now I'd take any tips for just starting out. But more specifically I was wondering about aprons. I do leather work so I was planning on making an apron while I try to pull together everything for my forge. However, I'm not sure what kind of leather I should use. Could I just use some Rawhide or should I go for something a little more pliable like some thick suede? Any discussion in the area would be appreciated, along with tips for just starting up. So far I'm having trouble finding the right steel. I have a huge scrap yard/recycling center in my town but I don't know what I'm looking for. Anyway, I'm really interested in Blacksmithing and I've already checked out 'on the edge of the anvil' from my library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRon_FOrgerI22 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Hey clay welcome to the fourm.I have been here for about4 weeks and I'll tell ya this is a great fourm if your just starting out. For your question on what metal you should get if your just starting out you should definetly use scrap metal I have been told that railroad track spikes are good since there free. But old car axles work make sure its either steel or iron i don't think tin or anything like that would work but i am sure some of our senoir members know so wait for there reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 use a split cow hide ...you can pick one up on ebay cheaper than you can buy the leather from Tandy to make one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Clay, regarding steel, you need to use the right steel for the project you are trying to make. Since you didn't tell us it's hard to help! If it's a blade it needs to be a heat treatable higher carbon steel: scrounged piece might include RR clips, (spikes have a *low* carbon content the "high carbon" ones being less than .3% C which isn't even medium carbon in the general way of thinking). Great for things that are not blades though. Generally I tell folks to try automotive coil or leaf springs as starter materials for things you want to heat treat for hardness and toughness. If it's ornamental work you want to use mild steel or A36 (what you usually get when you ask for hot rolled mild steel). Generally we suggest NOT buying steel at a big box store---I can generally buy 20' at a steel store for less than you pay for 3' at a big box store. And a warning DO NOT USE PLATED OR COATED STEEL TO FORGE ON. They produce toxic fumes---really. I had a friend who died when his metal fume fever went into pneumonia. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 If you haven't done so, check out ABANA's (Artist Blacksmith Assn of North America) site for your local chapter. The folks there will be a wealth of info and you can get hands on demos. ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Or you could go to the new section on IForgeIron > Getting Started > GS0003 Blacksmithing Groups It covers US and many other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Glenn, You and all of the people who make this site so enjoyable are just amazing!! You keep adding things that only improve the site that much more. thanks. Clay, welcome to the forum. There is definitely a wealth of knowlege here. check out the blueprints for starters. Also, I have lately been going through all of the old posts and threads just in the http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/ area and am learning lots and lots. even answers to questions like "what kind of steel should I use". Seriously (look around the the 50-62 page area). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Well, first of all I'd like to say hello. I'm new to the site and I'm still building my forge. Right now I'd take any tips for just starting out. But more specifically I was wondering about aprons. I do leather work so I was planning on making an apron while I try to pull together everything for my forge. However, I'm not sure what kind of leather I should use. Could I just use some Rawhide or should I go for something a little more pliable like some thick suede? Any discussion in the area would be appreciated, along with tips for just starting up. So far I'm having trouble finding the right steel. I have a huge scrap yard/recycling center in my town but I don't know what I'm looking for. Anyway, I'm really interested in Blacksmithing and I've already checked out 'on the edge of the anvil' from my library. I certainly would NOT use rawhide. It is, as the name implies, raw. It is not a finished hide. Hence the name "raw". Its preserved just enough to not readily rot, but when dry, is hard and stiff. Rawhide chew bones for dogs is a good example of rawhide. You want real, finished leather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 What everyone has said about getting steel, ditto. Scrap is cheap so check out your local scrap yard. It would serve you well to let them know what you are looking for. Wear your PPE; hard hat, safety glasses, leather gloves, and a safety vest would also help. It shows good sense and gives the owner a little piece of mind. Aprons. Well, you will get varied responses here. Some wear them, some don't. I do. I consider it a tool. It serves as padding against the leg or wherever when doing several different tasks, such as upsetting. Rawhide is too heavy and the aprons you get at the big box stores are too light, IMO. The leather needs to be pliable but have some weight to it. Not real sure how leather is graded; thickness, oz. per/foot, pliablity....? Heck, you're the leather man! Also, I like the apron to hit about chest high and just above the knee, and have a pocket or 2. Good luck getting started. You'll LOVE this new art and it should serve you well. Let us see some of your work also. Like Glenn and others suggested, check for groups in your area ("BAM" is the ABANA affiliate for your state) and become hard fast friends with them! IFI is a wealth of information but seeing it done and doing it yourself can't be duplicated here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 When you are scrap shopping you won't be able to distinguish one type of steel from another. Heavy plate will usually be mild steel, a bear to cut into usable sizes. If it is hex shaped it may well be some type of higher carbon steel. Shafting will be a low carbon steel in many applications may make a good choice. Ya pays ya money...And you know how to have good judgment? etc BTW welcome BAM is very active from what I gather, so look around their website. If you can catch him (seriously if you can catch him, he moves!) Tom Clark is a wealth of information I'm not sure where he is in relation to you but would be worth a trip to visit his shop. I believe he sells an item or two as well I'd recommend finding a steel yard handy and picking up some 1/4, 5/16 rd and maybe a stick of 3/4x1/4 rectangular. That is what I'll use a lot of and many ideas can be worked through on this small stuff before you tackle bigger things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I useed to have scrap rights at a local ornamental ironworks that fabbed fences, gates and railing. It was just big enough that they didn't keep all their drops for future maybe's and just small enough I could get permission from the office to root through the scrap bin. Lots of times I could get 50 or 60 1/2" sq by 18" long; almost always things in multiples and sometimes longer pieces that were left over after a large job. I even once got some WI where they were replacing a 100 year old fence that had been car customized. I forged gifts for the office secretary; always "checked in" and asked. NEVER got in the way of their work. Always left the scrap bin stacked neater (not hard when you were loading up as much as you could haul!). Wore bluejeans, work shirts, steel toed boots and gloves. Then after acquiring a ton or so of good stuff I had to move and leave it all behind to other smiths---waaaaa Out here nobody throws anything away! I'm sure some folks are hoarding grinder dust and lathe swarf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 But more specifically I was wondering about aprons. I do leather work so I was planning on making an apron while I try to pull together everything for my forge. Well, I don't do leatherwork, but I was able to make myself a very nice apron out of 3mm topside (is that the right term? The top of the skin where the hair was), rivetted up with copper rivets. I thought it would be too thick but it's not. The welders' aprons commonly sold are usually very low quality suede, and ususally pucker up and go hard and brittle when burnt at all. The thick buff leather used in farriers' aprons is a whole lot better, but topside is the best. I give mine a good clean and oil every year or so, and in return it protects me from weld spatter (both kinds), flying bits of steel, flying bits of coke, flying bits of swarf (which usually end up in my socks instead), burns, radiated heat, flying wire brush bristles, and a whole lot else besides. Most noticeably, on a day to day basis, it protects me and my clothes from a world of nasty, dusty, greasy dirt, and while there are plenty of blacksmiths out there who seem to enjoy appearing as if they just crawled off the set of a Mad Max film, I do not. So- yes, get an apron. If you spend a little money on nice leather, it will serve you well for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder19 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 If you do leather work then I would suggest making it like you planed, the average aprons you buy today are pretty low quality and don't hold up that long, but if you got your self some good quality leather and made it yourself it would probably last a long time and therefore being cheaper in the long run, heck, you could probably make a few and sell them and make yourself some $$ to help finance your new hobby. As for steel, definately look for leaf and coil springs & axles are your higher quality junk yard sources as well as rams out of hydraulic cylinders. welder19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentin Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Or you could go to the new section on IForgeIron > Getting Started > GS0003 Blacksmithing Groups It covers US and many other countries. It does not cover Romania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Clay, welcome aboard. Would like to get down your way sometime. I am just across the North border in Iowa ( north of Kirksville about 40 miles ). I know several BAM members and I really should join. Rolla has a charcoal plant and I have used their product. From time to time I have used BAM coal. Welcome and look up some BAM folks. You will learn a lot. Leather aprons are for the most part hot for me but your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Send me the information and I will add it to the list. That applies to any active blacksmithing group anywhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogo Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 As for aprons and PSG I use deer or elk leather......pre tanned......it comes in lots of different colors and most important......is machine washable........I dont recomend washing a lot(mine I do about once a year) wash by itself with a couple of drops of detergent on gental meduim heat. hang dry. oil with mink oil or neatsfoot oil to bring back the suppelness. but then again I do a SCA and Ren.........I need to look right doing demos hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mende Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Can't you just get a welder's apron? or are you interested in doing farrier work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbndrs Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Howdy...new here, but I think I can help you with making an apron. The best leather for this application is known (oddly enough) as "apron split"; it's undyed, chrome tanned (the tannage accounts for the blue-grey color), and selected for density/toughness. Go for the 6 oz. weight (thickness), and buy the whole piece (don't ask the jobber to cut a hide - most won't do it , anyway). As for assembly, stitch any seams with linen thread (available at the place you buy the leather, usually - you won't need much). Linen doesn't melt or break down like synthetics, and cotton thread abrades/rots away in short order. Reinforce corners and strap attachments with two piece copper rivets (rivets & burrs), available at feed stores, saddleries, and such places. Make a paper pattern first (a simple project, but you want to make sure things like corners don't flap, all the stuff you need to protect is behind the apron, etc.) - I've been a leatherworker for 30 years...I make cutting patterns for everything but belts and straps. Paper is much cheaper than leather. Tandy/ Leather Factory frequently has this leather in stores, but not offered on their web page - you might call and ask. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 Hey thanks irnbndrs thats the info I was looking for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidquality Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Some great information. But what about a pattern? Something in the 150 year old range? I've got a piece I picked up, more than heavy enough for the job and dyed (for $10) I couldn't pass it up. What would have been used for eye holes? How about the string to attach it? or would a leather loop for the neck have been the norm? Hard to get it all answered when leather work is just as complicated as blacksmithing. I figure I'll ask and then when I get to that point I'll know the right questions to ask hopefully. Thanks for the help thus far, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Leather strips across the shoulders, cross in the mid back, run through a loop in the apron at the waist, and then tie at the waist do not give you a pain in the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 so i go on the net looking for aprons.....unbelievable I can pay anywhere from 50 bucks to 200....i dont understand what they are describing...wheres carhard when you need em??? The weirdest thing about this whole blacksmithing thing is how many different subjects you must kinda understand to be well prepared... I am sure the village smithy got wht he needed and just worked after that...I got a hammer I got a forge and I got some metal...I make hooks coat racks and try other things from time to time ..... what more do I need ...not want but need..... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Some great information. But what about a pattern? As Glenn said, I'd recommend a Y shaped back strap, putting the weight on the shoulders rather than hanging off your neck. Otherwise I'd recommend two things; first, make it so that it hangs below your knee; you'll be glad of it when you absent mindedly try to "catch" a bit of hot metal falling off your anvil with your knee! Second, make it so that it covers as much of your sides as possible; it'll protect you when you're leaning over larger pieces or pieces in the vice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phonedoc Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hi, Clay. You're in a great area to be a beginning blacksmith. It seems that Rolla is a regular hotbed of smithing activity. Tom Clark I believe, is in the Sikeston area, which isn't too far away. There's also the Den of Metal arts over toward Lebanon. The BAM website will put you in touch with many folks who can help you. Blacksmiths Association of Missouri If you get to a hammer-in down there, say hi to my uncle, George Lewis of By George Forge. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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