bfe1044 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Want to start out with saying new to this forum as well as blacksmithing so please take it easy on me :)...I have access to lots of free 304 stainless big bolts, plate, pipe and figured you guys would know better then anyone if it could work for making decent hardy tool?...thank you and looking forward to the feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 A hardie tool for what operation? Cutting or forming? Positive or negative shape? In general stainless is tougher to forge, and 304 is fairly low carbon, so personally I'd opt for plain medium carbon steels like 1045 or the basic alloy steels like 4140 for something used in the hardie hole. But if it's all you have, give it a try, it'll be a learning experience. Once you are thru the learning experience you can scrap or trade the stainless you have access to for a more suitable steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I would think that the bolts might make better chisels or punches than hardy tools. The pipes may make hardy tools for shaping/bending depending on their size. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 304 isn't that hard, nor tough when pounding on it. Also non hardening. Try it, but don't get your hopes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfe1044 Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Wow you guys are quick to respond...Thank you guys for the input...I was thinking about just hot cutter or maybe small eye punches things of that nature...nothing for cold work...also just started so not much money to invest just trying my hand at it...so my hardy hole is only a small 1/2in square drifted in an rail road anvil I have had for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 my first hot cut was made form a section of angle iron and a 3/8" bolt to hold it in pritchel hole. I had to redo the edge every once in a while, but 304 should be fine to get ya by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You should be able to pick up coil and leaf spring for free or even axle steel if you are in the United States of America. I can't say about other countries. They would make a better cutting hardy tool than 304 which is usually described as "gooey" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Welcome aboard BFE, glad to have you. Put your general location in the header and you might be surprised to discover how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance. There's a common trap we tend to fall into and that's having something GOOD and trying to use it whether its best or not. 304 SS is more intended for corrosion and stain resistance not hard use so it doesn't harden but is great for cookware, etc. It might be tough finding . . . well, making bottom tools for a 1/2" hardy hole that work well. Then again I've never used one so I may be missing out on something that works a treat. For basic cutting you can make an anvil devil pretty easily. Anvil devils are basically a length of hardenable steel formed into a acute triangle that lays sharp edge up. Forge or weld an ear on each end so they hold it on the anvil and you're set for cutting. Make a devil like a 30/60 triangle so it rests with the short side down and you have a butcher. A butcher will cut, one side will be square while the pinchoff is on the other side. They're also good for shouldering but a shoulder butcher should have a radiused edge to prevent cold shuts. Hit a local spring, auto or truck shop, they'll probably let you pick through the scrap bin for broken springs. A spring shop will probably let you go through the drops or scrap. Tell them you're blacksmithing and need steel for tools. Take a box of donuts, talk to the secretary and be polite. Blacksmiths have a mystique that opens doors if we don't mes it up. Another way to keep on their good side is to bring a hand forged gift, nothing grand, bottle openers, coat hooks, candle holders, letter openers, etc. The secretary is likely to like a candle holder, letter opener, card holder, etc. Targeting the market is a good skill to hone. As a last bit of new guy advice pull up a comfy chair, pack a lunch and a refreshing beverage and start reading the subjects on IFI, they range from basic skills, shop building, tool and equipment locating, local organizations, advanced and industrial forging. IFI is a world wide site with members in more than 140 countries and last I heard some 80,000 members. At one time or many we've probably discussed most any question you have. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 one aspect of stainless is that it's a material of choice for ornamental items that you don't expect the owner to maintain. It's not used as often due to the extra work forging it and extra expense however if you have a low cost access to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admanfrd Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 My first hot cut was an old axe I found. I pulled off the handle, forged the eye closed, then adjusted and viola! Hot cut hardy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The first hot cut I made, (still going strong after 25 years of use), was made from the broken off end of a jackhammer bit: Forged the remains of the shaft to fit my anvil(s) and forged and ground the working end sharp. Normalized it, (yes it dulls faster than if I did a harder heat treat but with students in the shop dressing it is a lot faster, easier, cheaper then shrapnel or ER visits and only 1 of my hammers is softer than it is anyway.) One important thing: as I acquired anvils with slightly differing hardy holes I found that some would hold it tighter than others and so I took it and forged out the bottom of the stem smaller and longer to give a place to bop it to unseat it rather than rivet it in place as the skinnier end will extend below the hardy hole for all my anvils it fits. Again students pay no attention to the "this hardy is for this anvil" and even though I am surrounded by thousands of sq miles of desert dry gulching them gets you talked about---after a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 My first cutoffs were hand chisels and a hacksaw. One of the guys I get together with regularly uses a masonry chisel, it has a nice wide blade and the steel is hard enough and no way brittle. I'm betting the shank could be forged down to fit a 1/2" hardy hole with enough shoulder to keep it on the anvil rather than driven into it. HOT steel/iron is plastic, a cutoff only needs to be harp and thin enough to part the stock AND survive the heat log enough to do so. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfe1044 Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 I maybe able to get back in the shop hopefully this weekend and see what we come up with..do you guys know of a link with a how to on forming a die for collars...say like to tie scrolls together?...thank you all for the quick and very informational replys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Brian Brazeal has or had a BP on making collars with his adjustable set up. I saw it in use when he taught here, it's slick as teflon gravy. Do some searching or maybe someone kept a copy if the BP is gone. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admanfrd Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 · Hidden by Steve Sells, April 22, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Steve Sells, April 22, 2014 - No reason given We need a list of Brazeal inventions. Link to comment
scoobshagg Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 bfe1044, I couldn't help notice you are in Mentor Ohio. I don't have a huge shop but I'm just down the road from you in Richmond Heights. I might be able to give you a hand making a few tools, and If I can't I know a few guys who can. Drop me a line and perhaps we can pound some metal some time. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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