SpankySmith Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I snagged a couple old pairs of tongs last weekend after digging through piles and piles of stuff a roadside antique shop didn't even know they had. One of the sets is a very nice, very long pair that unfortunately has an extremely loose rivet. I'm comfortable (once I get my anvil! newbie) fashioning a new rivet for it, but I'm not clear on the best way to remove the old one? I'm new to blacksmithing but VERY comfortable with tools and have a wide range of them. How would you suggest I handle this? Apologies for no photo, but I think tongs are pretty standard fare (and also I'm on a break at work as I post this....shhhhhhh.... don't tell anyone!) :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Does the rivet just need to be tightened? If so a tap or so with your hammer ought to do it. If it's crooked and really needs removing is it loose enough to slip a hacksaw blade in without risk of marring the reins or boss? If so that may work. Otherwise you could use a dremel or file and remove one of the rivet heads. It'll have to be your judgement call as to what will work best but there are options. There is also the option of chiseling the rivet off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 It's loose enough to easily get my reciprocating saw with a metal blade in there, which was my first thought. Just tapping to tighten won't do it. I didn't know if there was a way to heat it and get it off any easier than just cutting it out. Or if there was some way to heat it in place and beat down the rivet head to tighten it up, but not sure how to do that without potentially damaging the rest of it. I have a personal extreme distaste for hacksaws, my least favorite tool in the shop, especially since the advent of small power tools! I'll stick her in a clamp and try the reciprocating first, there is literally that much wiggle room in the rivet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Nothstine Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I use to hate hacksaws until I pick up a real good blade. Now I use one all the time. Try a good Nicholson blade with a low tooth count. I have used cheap blades and have flatten the teeth in the first pass. You could also use a angle grinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Greetings Hairball, I have replace many rivets in tongs... It's easy to just grind off the rivet head and punch it out... Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 ah, the grinder! Why didn't I think of that? Geeze, not enough coffee in the system yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Heating and adjusting the bits of tongs is a standard blacksmith practice. For rivets it's usually the angle grinder for me---or the coarse file and popping them out with a punch. If the hole is wallored out I may re-drill it and go up in rivet size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 It is wallored and will require a larger rivet. But it's actually nice otherwise, worth salvaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Note my hacksaw has a 30" blade---mounted a section of band saw blade in a bow saw handle---punched the holes a wee bit closer than the wood blade so its tensioned a bit more. More aggressive tooth spacing than most of the regular blades and a lot more throw! I like sandvik frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Good Morning, If you are afraid of a hack-saw, why are you trying to fix tools?? A hack-saw only cuts in one direction, if you don't release tension when you are pulling back, you are not releasing the chips from the back of the teeth. Go slow, let the saw blade do it's job. If you get in a hurry, it doesn't go faster. Like what has been said above, DON'T buy a cheap blade. A good blade is worth it's weight in gold!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Sawing 1.5" diameter rod with a fine toothed short hacksaw will make digging through the stone walls of the Chateau D'If with a spoon seem like a hobby task! With a coarser sawblade 30" long it's merely tedium even if on the side of a talus slope in a wood---remember to switch hands every 100 strokes! Also the hacksaw on steroids can be useful at the scrap yard---along with the 4# hammer and a good cold chisel to remove rusted bolts so you can disassemble stuff and only pay for the weight your *want*. Keeping the hacksaw++, hammer and chisel, rags---preferably red, duct tape (to fasten red flags to pieces) and trash bags in your vehicle for lucky finds can also make traffic cop stops so much more interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Note my hacksaw has a 30" blade---mounted a section of band saw blade in a bow saw handle---punched the holes a wee bit closer than the wood blade so its tensioned a bit more. More aggressive tooth spacing than most of the regular blades and a lot more throw! I like sandvik frames. Great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JME1149 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Another option would be to drill out the head of the existing rivet. Lots of different ways to skin this particular feline, just a matter of which tool you grab hold of first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hacksaws are like chisels, the right from a and blade and it's a joy to use. The same with a chisel, the right shape, grind and hardness and it cuts off soft rivet heads with one or two blows, the junk (read as "lawerised"" they sell to day won't cut hard cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Especially the extrememly brittle chinese/india blades that break if you look crosseyed at them---hence why I went to BSB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I would imagine the lower tooth count helps with the larger sections as well. Did you punch the holes of small pritchel hole or a wood block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I used my bench mount hole punch for steel: "Whitney punch" And another tip for cutting BSB with tin snips: I used "bulldog" short bit and long handle snips and cut from the back of the blade toward the front and let the hardened last little bit just break off---saves your blades from having to be sharpened a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Good Morning, If you are afraid of a hack-saw, why are you trying to fix tools?? A hack-saw only cuts in one direction, if you don't release tension when you are pulling back, you are not releasing the chips from the back of the teeth. Go slow, let the saw blade do it's job. If you get in a hurry, it doesn't go faster. Like what has been said above, DON'T buy a cheap blade. A good blade is worth it's weight in gold!! Neil Not afraid of hack-saws, just don't like 'em. (who you calling skeered?!) Especially when I have other tools that will do the job as well but easier. I would NOT have thought about taking one with me on my first visit to the scrap yard, so that's good advice! I have a Ryobi cordless reciprocating saw that cuts metal like butter and it's very portable, makes for very quick cuts and would be especially helpful lopping off scrap at the junkyard. We have a huge junkyard here just 5 miles down the road and they're grateful for anyone coming through and relieving them of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I always ask; but seldom has been told I can't sub-divide stuff at the scrap yard *EXCEPT* when the people running it wanted to sell a complete assembly for a lot more than the piece parts. Get friendly with them and they will set stuff aside for you as it goes by the scales. Having access to a scrapyard is fairly rare these days and to be cherished! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Now I'm REALLY gonna' make you jealous.... the last couple times I've had to go for some reason they do not charge for anything I haul away. They've got so much junk there that small pieces walking out with me are apparently inconsequential to them. Sweet! This is a junk yard / recycling center rather than what they used to call junkyards when I was a kid, which was a bunch of old rusting cars. Piles and piles all sorted by metal type. Makes for interesting visits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Not afraid of hack-saws, just don't like 'em. (who you calling skeered?!) Especially when I have other tools that will do the job as well but easier. I would NOT have thought about taking one with me on my first visit to the scrap yard, so that's good advice! I have a Ryobi cordless reciprocating saw that cuts metal like butter and it's very portable, makes for very quick cuts and would be especially helpful lopping off scrap at the junkyard. We have a huge junkyard here just 5 miles down the road and they're grateful for anyone coming through and relieving them of crap. On an antique tong, I would be reluctant to use a hack saw or worse, a reciprocating saw to remove the rivet. If you want to preserve the antiquity, those would probably chew up and mar the bosses, making a mess. I would use Charles' idea of a chisel, carefully placed to cut off the rivet, or use an angle grinder or dremel tool. You could use an angle grinder with a fine grit wheel and gently touch the rivet head, slowly grinding it down then finishing with a chisel. A dremel with a thin cut-off might work with the gap, but use slow speed and be careful not to bind the wheel, or it could shatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Very good advice. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 If I may, a modern cold cut chisel is way to soft, and shaped and grount wrong. First draw the chisel out a bit more, then file to shape, having a cresent shaped edge like axe. For a rivet you want it be else only one side, and harden and temper to straw (400 F) grind the edge to 60 deg. Note if you do not diferencialy temper the chisel, you must use a soft hammer otherwise heat the struck end in the forge untile the working edge turns straw and quenche the working edge and wait for the struck end to cool to black.heat and quench the whole tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Greetings again Hairball, My 2c again..... The problem with a chisel or hack saw is you have to hold the tongs firmly in a vise and than try to cut a worn moving rivet... Like I said just grind of the head and most of the time the rivet just falls out... Good luck with on your blacksmithing journey Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 True Jim, but if you put the rive in the hardy hole, and use a hold fast it works just fine with a chisel. I find that as I get older I reach for the hand tools more often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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