HWHII Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 At my new job the forge is a charcoal forge with a two stage bellows. I have only forged with charcoal a few times and the same with a bellows but it was with a coal fire. I would appreciate any advise or tips you all can give me with this types of system. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemental Metal Creations Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I use charcoal a lot and the best thing I can say is with charcoal you need less air and a deeper fire, at least a couple of inches deeper. Also the fire will spread, keep your spare fuel away from the fire or you will have a very large fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grymm Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Elemental nailed it. Keep the fire deep and limit the air, charcoal burns faster than coal. A tip on keeping your fire from spreading to the outside charcoal is sprinkle the charcoal you don't want burnt with water or just keep a good gap between your fire pot and reserve fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOC Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I too have limited experience with bellows, but can say there is a rhythm to their efficient operation. Probably why they are so addictive! A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 I use charcoal a lot and the best thing I can say is with charcoal you need less air and a deeper fire, at least a couple of inches deeper. Also the fire will spread, keep your spare fuel away from the fire or you will have a very large fire. With a coal fire I am used to putting my metal in flush with the top of the fire pot and pulling coal up around it. Would you say you would push your metal lower and deeper into the fire? Thanks! I had seen a post by Thomas were he suggests using fire bricks to build a trough for a deeper fire. Looks like this might be a good trick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 No,'if your using the same set up, you may actually need to put a brick on each side to set the stock on and then pull fuel in over this top of a your stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I started with charcoal and a bellows. You have to have a deep fire the thing with charcoal you will use twice as much by volume as coal. so if you use 1 shovel full of coal you will now be using 2 or more charcoal. to much air can push the fire out of the fire pot as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Now that I use charcoal the airgate on the tuyere is almost shut and I use a very light hand on the blower. It really only needs a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Upside is that there is no clinker to deal with, downside is there is a ton of ash in the air that settles on everything. A large volume of low speed air is better than a small high speed blast. Lots of fire fleas jumping out as well, with too much air you can blow the coals right out of the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Les fleas and ash with alder and pine charcoal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 No Harold, By deeper we mean more charcoal UNDER the work with fuel on top. Charcoal doesn't use near as much air as coal. John presents an excellent example of TOO MUCH BLAST! <grin> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Hard wood has much more silica, this makes it harder, but also paradoxes more ash. Hard wood and soft wood charcoal (and mineral coal) have practically the same BTU's per pound. BTU's per cubic foot is another matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceas65 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 charles, you mentioned alder, i've been warned in years past that alder will burn so hot it will burn through or warp a wood stove . alder is something i have in over abundance, is it a good idea to use dry alder as fuel ... or better to make charcoal of it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Your going to forge with the coals, but you can go other way. Once you have coals it's conviniant to just add small scraps to the side ( especialy on a cool day) wile taking a heat. Used to be the recommended forging charcoal in the Nordic countries. Low ash, few fire fleas, plentiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I LIKE alder, I used it as in field expedient forges by preference, back when I was a field guy. About damaging wood stoves, a person has to have some sense about any fire appliance and know when to turn it down or just build a smaller fire. I use alder in both our wood burners as a good way to take the chill off fast, larger birch for longer heat. One small correction Charles, lb/lb is equal for coke, not mineral coal. I know it's a minor point but I'm not doing anything at the moment and it's TOUGH catching you in a mistake, Brother. <wink> You'll find softwood charcoal tends to have a higher absolute temperature than hardwood or coke, all things being equal. Same size fire, same blast, etc. Softwood charcoal is less dense so there's more surface area to oxidize in the fire, it burns faster and gets hotter. Same BTUs you just get them faster is all. If you really want a scary hot fire burn charcoal the way the coal fired power plant in Fairbanks burns coal. Crush it to -200 and burn it like gas. Really efficient and HOT if you want HOT. Not something a garage smithy would want, too much hassle and a PITA to control on a small scale. Besides -200 charcoal can be pretty explosive if it gets blown around a volume of air and ignited. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceas65 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 lol ... no i don't think that hot would be a good idea ..... but i think i'l try making some charcoal out of alder , and try that ... got to wait til this snow melts out a bit ...... maybe like August !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I built a shaker shovel to transfer coals from a fire to the forge. Lets me be away from the heat and smoke of the fire and get rid of the ashes and too small bits---made from gravel shaker screen from the scrapyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 With snow on the ground, one mite apretiate the fire, Tommas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Frosty, I'm wrong all the time (least wise that's what the kids tell me) funny thing about the listed btu contents, I've seen 10,000 to 17,000 btu/lb listed for coal, and depending on who's chart soft coal, hard coal and charcoal are always with in 1000 btu. Impriricaly, all I really know is I burn up just as much steel in charcoal as I do coal ;-) One thing to take away from frosty, smaller peices will relieve more heat and transfer it to your work faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I find 3-4 hours after working w/ a charcoal forge the buildup of ash restricts the temperature the forge will reach. Easy way around this is to periodically with the air off make a focused effort to stir the pot so the ashes fall down the tuyere and dump the firegate. Everything else I might add has already been said, I use firebricks to allow more height and less width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I used to give the bellows a couple of HARD strokes and blow the ash and small stuff out of the firepit---messy though... BTU per *pound* is similar for soft coal and charcoal. Density of the two is a lot different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Ain't we all Charles, I just don't catch you in one very often. I'm just not that swift. Another aspect of small pieces of solid fuel in the fire, the increased surface area allows the fuel to consume more oxygen so the fire's sweet spot will be closer to the air blast and hotter. I've found it doesn't matter what kind of fuel I use, I can burn steel with em all. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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