adamj Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I have been wandering about using carbide lathe inserts as a bit in a blade. my questions are will it work? and how would you do it? I had thought maybe lay inserts in a row in between two pieces of steel and then forging all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Give it a go and take pics...post results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 work for what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 If it works you get a blade that's nearly impossible to sharpen by hand---gotta use a diamond hone and will catastrophically chip if dropped or struck against something hard. Sounds like a lot of work to make a blade that is sub par. What are you trying to accomplish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It would work if the inserts were silver soldered in. Carbide is not forgeable. Melting temp is over 5,000° F. The main problem for a knife edge is that it is very brittle. I work with carbide cutters at work, and they can be sharp-very sharp. Sharp enough that I got 8 stitches a couple of weeks ago in my hand after I raked my hand across a form drill. Now sharpness is only part of what makes a good knife blade. They also have to be somewhat tough, and flexible which carbide is not. Any drop onto a hard surface can shatter an edge. Any side flexing will crack it. Now I have thought of getting a large carbide slab, and trying a straight razor with it, but I wouldn't use it for a knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 BIGGUNDOCTOR, really sorry about your mishap. After handling solid carbide end mills, etc., for years, I know how that can happen in a blink, then you are trying to stuff your parts back in.... :o And you are so right - one cannot forge carbide inserts into a blade. Carbide powder is sintered (pressed) under high pressure (over-simplified) to form inserts. If one were to hammer on a red-hot Insert, I imagine it would shatter explosively, whilst possibly leaving a nice dent in the anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Lathe inserts crumble even at high yellow heat rather than shatter, I'll tell you a story if you actually have to ask how I know. You CAN buy high impact tungsten carbide inserts from a drill tool company, try Kenna Metal or maybe Diamond Drill, if they don't have them they'll know who does. It WILL need to be silver soldered or brazed, it won't weld, forge or otherwise. As said already sharpening it will take diamonds, wheel and hone but be prepared for the learning curve on the wheel, it's NOT like steel. Is it worth it? I don't think so but what they hey, I'm wrong so often I'm used to it. Just let us know how it works out if you give it a shot. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Greetings, I have been waiting for some experts to chime in and give Adam some advise... Not pleased with " LET ME KNOW HOW IT WORKS "... In short Adam it is a dangerous and not suggested process .... Do not attempt to forge weld carbide.. There I have said it... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Anachronist58, pretty well healed up now, just a bit itchy at the moment. I was tightening an Allen bolt for the headstock bushing in one of our Tornos Deco 10 screw machines-the set up guy had buggered the main bore some so I was helping him fix the situation. I am the tool maker, and also help with maintenance where I work. The Allen wrench slipped, and my hand came up and across the form drill. Felt like a razor. After I had the bleeding stopped I actually found it pretty interesting. Not often that one gets to see what they have under their skin, I could see the muscle fibers move around as I swiveled my thumb. I take things like this in stride, just one of the hazards of what I do for a living. The last stitches in me were over 40 years ago, so it isn't like I do this often. As long as my trigger finger still works I'm good. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoRockNazz Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Had the same idea; last year I patternwelded a billet of 15n20 and 1080 with iron carbide powder sprinkled between layers, a box weld around the whole billet, n a squirt of oil. It was a fine forgeweld of 100+ layers, but ultimately the steel acted no different than it's mother components in my shop tests. The main difference was during bending to break it it tended to crackle and split like wood along the weld grain before not so easily snapping (this was with a 405 degree temper on a sample piece 1/8"x1"x3"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 I have been pondering this idea for about 9 years now. I guess its not such a good idea now. if I made a knife it was gonna be a show knife type piece to be able to say, look how sharp this is, kind of thing. can you grind the inserts with a grinder or are they to hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 One may grind tungsten carbide with silicon carbide, but I'd rather eat dirt (takes forever). I routinely used resinoid bond diamond wheels. One may purchase a Diameter 6" x 1/4" wide economy general purpose diamond wheel for ~ $100 from MSC Industrial Supply, ENCO, etc. the wheels require special care when mounting; I don't advise breathing carbide dust, and it is easy to ruin that $100 wheel by chatter when grinding off hand. A metal bonded wheel might mitigate that *a little*. Others here may know of alternate products? Yes, BIGGUNDOCTOR, I share your fascination with our inner workings, but I hope that will be your last look for a long, long, time. I somehow still have the use of BOTH trigger fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Adam rather than asking all these questions about odd things, I have an Idea for you . Why not go to the forge and just make a knife. Dive in and get started with a simple carbon steel. Much of what we are trying to tell you here, and in the other threads will make more sense after you work in the shop. and your first knife will not be worth showing off, the never are, but we show them anyway :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Sorry Jim, I thought 9 out of 10 replies saying it won't work was clue enough. Tungsten Carbide inserts don't weld, forge or otherwise is what I believe I said. Doing the forging isn't as dangerous as hitting cold carbides, I know, I gave it a shot a couple decades ago. At yellow heat tungsten carbide inserts crumble but are not soft, they will mark your anvil and hammers. Happily I was using a piece of RR rail so it was no real loss. We used to dress carborundum wheels with an old carbide drill tooth, it lasted years. The best wheel I know of for grinding tungsten carbide is the rubber bonded diamond wheel, they work a treat and are much safer. Using the hard diamond wheel and letting a tool slip and or jam can cause the wheel to shatter, even just gouging a groove in it is a couple hundred bucks out the window. So, bottom line is do NOT make a tungsten carbide knife. The best you'll get is a conversation piece wall hanger, the topics of conversation will tend to lean toward how much work it was and how non-utilitarian it is. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Steve I have made several knifes I have been asking questions since I am currently getting my forge and anvil ready to fire up. when I moved all my stuff was 100 miles away and I was recently able to bring it all down, and I have been working to get it operational. so I have been asking questions till I can get out and try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 your statement of " if I made a knife it was gonna be a show knife type piece " in post #11 here combined with other posts of yours, lead me to believe you had not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 I was meaning if I made a knife using the carbide sorry for the confusion. I have posted some of my others on here in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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