Trying to commercially make an anvil

[kawvalleysteel]

I hope this is a good spot for this. Our company has a large amount of 6" thick T1 steel that is very narrow and long and we have decided to try to make some anvils. The tall dimension is 7.5" (limited by our steel stock), and about 16" long. Overall, it comes out a little bit wide for an anvil, particularly in the horn area.
 

 

 
Then we cut the horn shape with a hand torch and used a carbon arc gouge to rough shape the horn.
 


 
 
Soooo: overall we have an 85# anvil that is 7.5" tall and 16" long. It needs a hardy hole and a pritchel hole. These are going to be 5/8" round and 1" square, right? Does the exact location on the anvil matter?
 
Also, should I be devising some type of mounting provision? Any ideas what kind? Is the horn too wide to be useable?
 
And most importantly, can anyone help me with heat treating instrucitons. The general plan is to heat with a propane burner, let it normalize at temp, and then raise the water bath in our burntable to quench. I need help with temperatures and time.
 
Thanks in advance for all the help!!

[MLMartin]

Your steel and time. But if you are just looking for a very usable anvil the shape you cut is a big waste of metal.

You could cut a nice large double horn anvil with no feet on it. The anvil would be bigger and less material would be wasted as drops. Look at the "Nimba" anvils. Feet could be welded on later our of smaller stock.

And those are some nice toys you have in your shop. I sure wish I could get a big anvil cut from that stuff

Best of luck to you

[ThomasPowers]

It looks like someone used the Harbour Freight cast iron ASO as the model for that.  Sort of like deciding to build a million dollar car and base it on the Yugo instead of a high end car.

 

As for size of the holes there is NO standardized hardy and pritchel sizes; 1" is common though for a hardy---though I have 3 with 1.5; 1 with 1.25, 1 with 7/8, ....

 

What is a bit wide for an anvil?  My most used anvil is Much Much wider than that one.  In general wider is better. *Especially* if it's "sweet spot" width---the area on the face where there is steel all the way down.  (that front cut in under the horn area  doesn't help usability and does detract from efficiency

 

As for heat treat will your proposed method deal with the steam jacket issues in quenching?

 

If I were you I'd look into doing a double horn version---1 sq and one round as they are harder to find here in the USA

 

I also get the feeling that you are not experienced anvil users.  Some hands on research and talking with users and even some prototype testing might help.

[njanvilman]

Nice clean cuts. Got to love a NC torch when cutting thick plate.


You might want to complete the profile and post where you are located. You might find some of us are local and could offer face to face advise. And maybe drum up some business for you.

[kawvalleysteel]

I'm in NE Kansas. I had considered making a much larger one, but the width didn't fit what I could find for available shapes. I started with this chart:

 

http://anvils.co.uk/images/uploaded/ANVILS_DATA.pdf

 

No, I am not an experienced blacksmith. I would love to learn. Actually I would love to hear from some local folks and find out about joining an organization where I can learn blacksmithing.

[ironsmith]

just curions is your comapany looking at production? that would be Awesome.

 

it's a good first start i look forward to seeing where you go with it. :)

[kawvalleysteel]

I'm thinking about it. I have sources to get cast ones made, and the ability to produce them out of steel plate like this. We're part of a larger production shop that is slow right now so we have lots of tools/toys available. We opened up a retail branch after another shop in town closed down in order to do retail sales of stuff like this or CNC cut plate art, etc.

 

I'm even looking at opening up some welding classes here at our shop on weekends for hobbyists to learn more about welding. I'm hoping that we can do the same with blacksmithing in the future.

[ThomasPowers]

I'd like to second the suggestion to do a variation of the NIMBA anvil and maximize the sweet spot!

 

Have you calculated a starting price point yet?

 

Might think of doing some custom shapes for a custom price!

[Jim Coke]

Greetings ,

 

That's some fine toys you have to work with...   I see it as the same old problem...   4hr shop time @ 100.00 per and material does not yield a profitable product..   I am up for your classes ..  I think it is great that you offer them..   Keep up the progressive thinking ...   I wish you well...

 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

[kawvalleysteel]

We were looking at $300 apiece for these. Yes, we wouldn't keep making them after this steel is gone for this, but it works for now. We can do the NIMBA anvils too. Those actually look like they will be better suited to our production machinery. If we make more I might go for that style. We are heat treating the first right now.

[Chinobi]

might be more efficient from the shop time perspective to just cut at the angle points in your leftover piece to create a handful of post anvils, some tapering from top to bottom, some tapered top to bottom with a little foot, and some that are uniform rectangular prism's.  if you want to get fancy from there try cutting a series of half round (or other profile) swages down the length so you can use it as an anvil, flop it over, and use it as a swage block.  concave shapes in the wide faces a plus for dishing, maybe some holes that penetrate all the way as well.  it wont have a hardie hole, but its not that difficult to work around that.

 

that way you can reclaim the largest mass of steel, rather than carving so much of it away to 'londonize' it :)

[EricJergensen]

I would probably give you more for the rectangular block than I would for the cut out version!

 

Some optimizations you could do:

 

Cut them out as back-to-back T's with the alternating ones upside down. Actually, alternating trapezoids crossed with a T (i.e. T's with slanting ends to the crossbar part) would be the best use of your steel, if you want to try to get a horn and heel.

 

Your horn is too broad. The top surface ought to be like a cone.

 

I rarely use my horn as a "cone mandrel", so what's underneath could be left perhaps.

 

Do *NOT* neck in the waist. That's just waste (unlike a cast or forged anvil, where the material doesn't go in a scrap bin).

[ironsmith]

i would think u would sell all you could make for 300 a piece with a good heat treat!

 

a swage block would be easy to do as well i would think!  food for thought ;)

[Charles R. Stevens]

I would have to second (third?) the double horn and the post anvil,
Some of the double horned anviles have muntible pritchel holes down the center of the square Horn graduating from 1" and a one inch hardy just befor the round horn.
Id love a double horn post anvil!
I'd also second the idea of a swage block.
Might I sugjest looking at anvilfire's anvil fabrication pages? Some good ideas, just be carful Mr Dempsey can be a bit touchy about plagerising his ideas.
Heat treat is a bit more involved that heating the "anvil" with a weed burner, as I understand it, large valumes of water dropped from a hight is the norm to quench, falowed by tempering. Tho one of the members has sugjested using a chilled (internally plumed) aluminum block to quench the face.

[LastRonin]

Add me to the list bringing up double horns like the Nimba. Or even something similar to the sawmaker's anvils would be great to me. I have plenty of things I can use for a horn, and a good enough London pattern for hardy tools. I just really need something with a flat face and good edges. If you took your 7.5" height and made that the length... 6"W x 7.5"L x 15"H would make a pretty nice 189# sawmaker style(ish) anvil. Waste material would be reduced. (And your production cost would be significantly less)

[VaughnT]

Definitely go with the post anvil.  Heck, your pieces are almost perfectly shaped as-is and wouldn't need much work to make a basic post anvil or two.

 

In your first picture, if you would just cut straight across with that torch it would be absolutely perfect.  I don't know who much it would weigh, but I'd absolutely love to have an anvil like that in my shop!!  The little shelf left could be drilled for a hardy hole or a pritchel if I wanted to do some punching, maybe making nails.  The tapered waist is sexy, giving it sort of a medeival armoring anvil look, and all I'd have to do is weld a stub on the bottom to help secure it to a stump.

 

Ugh!  I so hate being broke. :(

 

As for the anvil that you made, it's nice.  I think cutting in at the waist to give it that "classic" anvil shape was a waste of time and money because it removes weight and doesn't really help the anvil.  But that's the only bad thing I see.  The horn could be rounder, but it would just add time and money to the price tag.  Better to leave the final shape up to the buyer.

[Ferrous Beuler]

I second ironsmith's swage block idea.

[John McPherson]

London pattern anvils are common in the US, old anvils sell for a fraction of the new price.

 

You need to go for the uncommon. As mentioned above, a double pike English, Italian or German style would go over well, as would a post anvil.

[fluidsteel]

Google Sea Robon anvils. A simple post anvil that was very popular.

[Gromgor]

I'd love to just have a cube that size. Nice clean edges, perfectly flat face and maybe, MAYBE a notch cut, horizontally on two opposing sides, just so I could strap it down to whatever base I made for it. The stuff I tend to make, I don't really use a horn too much.

[Fatfudd]

I'm with VaughnT!! In the first picture If you cut straight across the piece I'd buy that in a heart beat. It would be excellent for a lot of the work I do. I might have you drill a 3/4 hole in that thin tail but I have plenty of anvils with hardy holes. let me know if you would do that and what it would cost after you heat treat it.

[jcornell]

Here's an anvil that Glen Stollmeyer is making in Taiwan (I don't think he's selling them).

 

 

Given the size of your stock, I'd actually prefer this design - I'd use a bick of some sort if I needed turning that I'd do on a horn.

 

Keep us posted with your progress.

[David Einhorn]

Knifemakers might be interested in a Sheffield style of knifemaker's anvil. 

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Judging from the responses, I'd imagine cutting a slab that just fit a flat rate box would go over real well.

[VaughnT]

Two of my personal favorites when it comes to block anvils.  The first has a beautifully mushroomed top and a small pritchel-type hole that would be great for punching out holes, etc.  The lines are fantastic, and the design could be scaled up to the size of the metal scrap that's available.

 

 

Here's a more involved design with a strong taper to the stump and chamfered corners.  Very elegant, but still has that simple, rustic flair to it.  Again, it could be scaled up or down depending on what metal was available.

 

In both instances, there would be no need to cut the mounting tenon out of the parent stock.  A short length of inch-square A36 could be welded on a lot easier, or that could be left to the customer (so they could save some money and fashion a tenon that best suits their needs).

 

Anvils like this have been around for thousands of years, but it's very hard to find them in the US.  London-pattern anvils are a dime a dozen, so to speak.