StompTheFire Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I turned 18 yesterday and I've always been interested in blacksmithing so tomorrow I'm going out to buy some items to assemble my own forge in the backyard. My neighbors one of those elderly gentlemen who's basement is the holy grail of tools, he's nicely offered to lend me his railway anvil and a hammer till I can afford my own. I was wondering how many of you are fully committed to this craft, as in make a living off it. Is it still possible in todays high-tech standard to make a living off such an old skill as blacksmithing? I've decided to take up blacksmithing courses at my local community college as a way to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hey Stomp, welcome to both the forum, and your new addiction. You should add your location to your profile, you may be suprised at how many other smiths are nearby. As far as making a living doing this, as a newbie myself I personally don't see it ever happening, I make things mostly for myself, or as gifts, and the few things I do sell, the money goes right back into the shop, either for coal or a new swage or hardy, or some other tool I really want to play with. There are those who have indeed turned a profit. If you scan the gallery you'll find beautiful railings, gates, and intricate artworks created by men (and women) far more talented than me, but I wouldn't count on it being a career until you learn, practice and refine your abilities. (Just my 2 cents.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StompTheFire Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Appreciate all the feedback, If you could give me a basic list of things that are necessary for your own smithing setup. A rough estimate of the price of all the items that would be fantastic. Remind you all I'm on a budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hello and welcome. Can you make a living doing this ? Yes but... I know several "smiths" that make a living forging things. However most supplement their forging work with other metal work, mostly welding and fabrication. Often it's this other work that typically pays the bills on a regular basis and the forge work is the "specialty" work that they do occasionally. One guy I know mostly does "wrought iron" fences, railings and security doors/bars. The vast majority of his stuff is bought premade and welded together, but he has to forge pieces to match the premade stuff when he can't get pieces the correct size, or on rare occasions for the few clients with money who are willing to pay the premium for all hand made parts. Another does some work with heavy architectural elements to cover his bills. While they often are assembled with hot rivets and have wrought components, most of the stuff is mig or tig welded where it can't be seen for speed of production. He readily admits his "signature work" is often done at a loss, and is mostly done because he can, and those projects are usually done more for his pleasure than to make money. Most of the farriers I know forge because they need to, not because they "want " to. By "want", most will simply take readily made shoes and fit them vs starting from scratch to make shoes, even if they know how. Almost all I've spoken to do this because they love animals, not because they want to forge for a living. If anything forging is more a "hobby" based on skills they need to work. Understand that if in the end you plan to work for yourself, that most guys are lucky to simply pay the bills and live a subsistence living for several years while they get their business going. Lots of guys choose to have a "real" career and punch a clock for 40 hours a week and do smithing stuff on the side to supplement their income. I tell most guys that want to start their own business that they had better plan to have enough money not only to start the business with tools and supplies, but enough "spare" cash saved up to cover all their expenses for at least 18 to 24 months while they get started. They should expect to work 6 to 7 days a week, all year with no vacations, putting in at least 12 to 14 hour days, usually for little to no pay. Don't expect to be buying a new car, a big screen Tv and so on. Expect that your business will suck up all the money you make and then some. Being self employed has some real advantages, but also lots of headaches and hardships. There's a lot more to running a business than simply being able to do the work. Most guys fail not because they can do the work, but because they can run a business and manage the costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackyardBlacksmithin Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hello and again welcome to the hobby that will soon overtake any spare space outside or inside for that matter that you have, Ha! I just started smithing a year ago just thinking that I would make a few things for myself, probably similar to what your interested in doing. But two things happened quite quickly, I ran out of room to put stuff I made and as I got better people started asking if I sell stuff. So here I am about a year later with a full fledged side business. I'm by no means getting rich but I have a hobby that pays for itself and allows me to buy and make stuff that I never would have before I started this. I started with a chunk of railroad track that was given to me, the cheapest 2lb cross pein hammer I could find, and a jeep brake drum as a forge. And it sounds like you have two of those already. If I can tell you one thing DONT OVERCOMPLICATE IT. The simple fact is you need something hard to hit against, something hard to hit it with, and a fire to heat steel. The picture below is my first forge, a brake drum, old oil barrel turned upside down and cut the bottom out to fit the drum. Ran some steel pipe down to a small squirrel cage blower. Wired it to a ceiling fan switch to control the air speed. It was rough but I made a lot of stuff with that forge. Heck Id say if you were in the Oregon area I would just give it to you. For safety sake I would say the first project you should make is some tongs. If you search around there are a few good methods to make them that are very easy to do. I did the channel lock thing for tongs and I will tell you it sucks on a good day and is flat dangerous on a bad one. Good to have you and have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 As far as tools, your anvil is probably going to be your greatest expense right now. True there are "deals" out there, but I'd figure at least $250-400 for a budget if you are looking for a 100 to 150 lb anvil on average. Anything less is "found" money you can invest in something else. Tongs would be you next expense. I'd bite the bullet up front and buy 2 or 3 pairs of premade tongs to get started. Most tongs can hold several sizes of stock. I'd get a set of bolt tongs, probably in 1/4" and 1/2". That should cover you up to 5/8" stock easy, and maybe a set of tongs for flat work. Figure $40 a pair roughly. A good bit of my kit has come from perusing flea markets, yard sales and used tool outlets. Ball peen hammers, old punches, occasionally tongs etc show up fairly cheap. Lots of tooling can be made yourself once you get the basics set up. A decent welder would be on my list to buy used. You can pick up old AC stick machines on CL for between $50 - $150 pretty regularly and that will get you started to make up tools, weld on extension handles and so on. A nice 230v mig or a DC stick machine that you can use for tig are also a nice addition in the future. Most homes have a 230v 30 amp electric dryer and you can build an inexpensive extension cord to power a 230v welder to get started. Oh do yourself a favor and sign up for ABANA. Most of the places that sell smithing tools like Pieh tools, Centaur forge, Blacksmiths Supply and so on, give discounts if you have an ABANA membership. I wished I'd known this when I was 1st buying most of my starter stuff, If nothing else the discount would have paid for my membership as well as saved me some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StompTheFire Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Thank you everybody for your very informative thoughts, I will be posting some pictures once my forge is completed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 You said you were going to take some classes which is great, I am hopeful they will stress it, but make sure to use PPE (personal protective equipment). IMO safety glasses are 1st on the list, don't do anything without them. And do NOT wear anything synthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Take all the classes you can get, and don't shy away from classes you don't "think" can be of any help. Art classes teach you about drawing and design. Philosophy classes might teach you about thinking outside of the box. Business classes will help you be profitable. Can you make a living as a smith? Maybe in ten years when you have a significant amount of education and experience under your belt. Right now, using a borrowed hammer and railroad track anvil, though??? As the old saying goes, if only it was that easy! Having said that, though, don't think that using blacksmithing as a hobby is somehow a bad thing. It's very meditative, allowing an outlet for your creative side, and makes that 50hr workweek survivable! If I wasn't smithing even a little bit, I'd have probably gone stir crazy by now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Go work for a smith. Everyone recommends spending money on education before experience. Work isn't school. Being good at school is misleading and frustrating. Spending hard-to-gather funds to take a class of dubious value isn't strictly expanding your mind, it's limiting your options because every dollar spent needs a return on investment when you've got few dollars to spend. I'm a huge advocate of education AFTER you've tried a vocation long enough to know if it's right for you. WAY too much money is spent on classes for people to "find themselves". Taking classes that have practical and immediate benefit to your earning potential is critical. Internships and apprenticeships give you a chance to actually earn some money learning about a job. Most of the folks I met who changed majors in College did so after an internship because they finally learned what their working life would be. By that time, they'd spent half their college fund going the wrong direction. Higher education is an amazing tool that can harnessed to further your aspirations or it can be like having your foot stuck in the stirrup of a charging horse. In my experience, the minority of college graduates who are doing anything related to their field of study. Too many folks get themselves turned around -find work then try to pass off the misdirection as providence. At 18 years old I was certain of many things I didn't really know - most of my friends were the same. It's not a good position to settle matters as long-lived as a career. There really isn't any need to be certain of what you're going to do right now. Take your time and try different jobs out. The money you make in the process can go towards paying for the education you actually need. The experience and focus you'll bring to your chosen field of study will make you a success. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you want to do this as a business; business classes are way more important than blacksmithing classes. Lots of ways to learn blacksmithing but the typical way to learn what you don't know about business is going bankrupt repeatedly! As mentioned there are lots of classes that can help outside of smithing ones, Art, CAD, Welding, Machining, jewelry making---very handy if you want to make knives as the fittings are done using these techniques... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Of course you can make living doing this. There are a few little details to work out while you startl earning..Classes speeds the process and helps to not spend a lot of time doing things wrong you will have to relearn later on to progress. Set goals,,where will your work be in one month,,,three months a year and five years are good thought points. Realistically it may take youi five years to learn enough basics to start to earn back some of the money you spend on keeping at this and supplying fuel steel and tools. Then for a years while you find a market for wot you would like to make on a steady basis ou can plan on making a few hundred dollars a year. Whether that is all profit depends on your business skills. Which as said above you should develop formally. The shop time I mentioned above for youi to learn would be at least six full days a week. Schooling or outside work to help with the bills would cut into that time and extend the time to learn. At your age you future is much brighter if you continue school,, and lean heavy towards business management,,learn a trade and play in your shop when you have free time,,,It may all come together later on, but not anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Stomp, I re-read my earlier post and I want to be clear about a few things. I'm not against education as a means to an end. If it were reasonably priced, I'd likely still be following up on my interests. The fact is, during my four year's at a University my tuition went up nearly 30% and I'm lucky by national standards! College debt is serious stuff. Textbooks are frequently over $100 apiece - USED - many classes require more than one. Universities may or may not accept credits from other accredited institutions which means even more time and money. College advisers ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND. I never met a classmate who graduated in four years - there's always some catch to keep you there another semester or two. I got out in four years by taking full load classes during my summers. Summer classes at a university are required to cover the normal semester's worth of work in half the time. It's really difficult! Nevertheless, Rich is still right that your future will be brighter with an education because employment is often based on what you supposedly learned rather than what you actually know. That's true for the first few jobs out of college - after that, your relevant job experience and references matter a whole lot more. There's time enough to test out what you'd like to do right now. Going to college to find yourself is how people end up with six years of classwork - no degree, no job, and no way out of debt. Young people are forced to delay marriage and home ownership because they're holding record levels of college debt. Basically their life is on hold because they were in such a hurry to "get an education" that they never took the time to figure out what they were doing there. I really believe that education would be far better if people paid for it out of their own pocket at the door of each lecture. Once you realize that each class is about $50.00 per session you start to expect a bit more of yourself, your teacher, and the class. Finally, I'd like to mention that there are FREE online university classes including some from Ivy league schools. It's a magnificent opportunity for anyone with an internet connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 On 11/25/2013 at 4:18 AM, StompTheFire said: Appreciate all the feedback, If you could give me a basic list of things that are necessary for your own smithing setup. A rough estimate of the price of all the items that would be fantastic. Remind you all I'm on a budget. At te risk of sounding like a pompous old geezer, ( if it talks like a duck ) ... NO "just turned" 18 year old, is in any way prepared to "fully commit" to anything. But that's OK. Buying a fully equipted Smithy, will NOT make you a Blacksmith. EDUCATION will make you into whatever you want to become. ( "Education" means much more than attending some school, ... and frankly, ... the notion that you can "buy" any skill, just by attending some class, is erronious. ) The process of LEARNING, ... by formal instruction, or by hands-on methods, ... will make it clear to you, what tools you need, in order to best pursue your own intrests. ( And trust me, ... those interests will change, ... often. ) By making your own Forge, and basic Tools, the LEARNING process begins. Maryland has a very active ABANA membership, ... and I would advise attending some of their functions, to get an idea about what Tools you want.. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 At 18 the best advise has been given by Rich Hale and others, learn a paying trade one you can keep going back to when things crap out at the forge or you need money for materials or maybe bread and water. Learn business management, community college will do, Take blacksmith classes when you can afford them from people who are teaching what you want to do. No simple answer except everything you need to get started or keep going Cost $$$$$$$$$$ you have to earn it. Keep on the good side of your folks as well as they just might let you sleep in the house during the cold months. Good Luck, your whole life is staring at you from afar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Hello all. I'd agree with just about everything said above, including the contradictions. Using me as an example, I've been working at the same career using my degree since before you were born, and have been fortunate to work my way into a job that pays a decent salary for only working 1-2 days a week (even though I'm on call for a full week), allowing me a lot of time to refine my smithing abilities. However I'm still paying off student loans that paid for the degrees and as a result, am still beholden to someone else until the debts are all paid. My suggestion, do what makes you happy, follow your passions, choose your path, not what society thinks you should do. If I were to do it all over again, I'd probably skip the degrees (and the debts associated with them), and would probably still be doing OK. One other anecdote: I have 2 friends who have been smithing for over 40 years apiece, both attended the same blacksmithing school back in the 70's, both founding members of the NWBA. One remained a full time smith and one went to work for Boeing while smithing in his off-time. I recently had a conversation with the latter, and he was lamenting about how the former is now one of the best smiths in the US, and how he (the latter) could have also been winning awards if he had remained a full time smith. Then in the next breath he pointed out that he now gets monthly "paychecks" (pension) and medical benefits for the rest of his life and doesn't have to do anything whereas the other has to continue to work for the rest of his life to continue to have income. Which is the better choice??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcornell Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Your question is more than a little odd - it's kind of like "I see this girl across the street, should I just be friends or should I ask her to marry me, and by the way, we've never said one word to each other yet." In Rockville, MD, you have the choice between the Blacksmith Guild of the Potomac (in northern Virginia) or the Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland (BGOCM) for classes. Dick Smith is the resident blacksmith at the Sandy Spring Museum and says that he's going to teach classes, but I haven't seen him do it yet. He's a good smith, In August there's a blacksmith tent at the Montgomery County Fair and on the first weekend in November there's a blacksmith fair at the Montgomery County Agricultural History Park. The local community college (Montgomery College) doesn't teach blacksmithing, but it does teach welding as a non-credit class. Spend some time with a smith, take a class. If you can get into Blacksmithing 101 taught by Albin D-ski at BGOCM you'll get a good foundation. Then...build a coffee can propane forge and get a 3' piece of railroad track and stand it on end in a 5 gallon bucket of cement. Get a 2" ball-pien hammer or an el-cheapo cross-pien hammer from Harbor Freight Tools. Get some tongs. Now heat and beat. This can be started with minimum funds, but you will eventually invest a significant chunk of cash in tools you buy or build. I suspect that smithing will never be anything more than a hobby for me (I've been working as an attorney for 29 years) but it certainly is rewarding. Good luck - drop me a PM if you want to discuss this offline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun66 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I'm doing this strictly for recreation. I used to enjoy mechanic work. After many years, I struggle to work on my own vehicles. But at the same time, I've been welding/fabricating for over 2 decades and I still enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel.85 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 If you want to make a living out of it, devote your life to it, then if you're smart enough and crafty enough you will eventually(could be years) find something you can do that will make you enough money to possibly start supporting yourself. Learn, brainstorm, be imaginative all towards blacksmithing, have that in your mind most the day, EVERY day. Thats how I've progressed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyrsmith Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Hey stomp, I'm a new smith too and I'm going to be working part time while smithing. Thinking of making stuff in the fall/winter and sell stuff in the warm months cause I knew a few ren fairs in my area and those close by plus farmers market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyrsmith Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Backyard smith- where in oregon do you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromgor Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Someone once gave me some advice. Two bits, actually: First - All men are created equal. So to be better than somebody else you have to be able to do something they can't. You have to be smarter than them. You have to be willing to do what they will not. Yes, you can be a better man than somebody else and don't ever let anyone more stupid than you tell you they're better than you. Second - Never do anything with a parachute except skydive. Be willing to fail. Be willing to lose everything. Let nothing at all hold you back for fear of failure. The worst that can happen is you have to start again from a place you've already been before. Why do I mention these two points? Because if you want to make a living blacksmithing, be a blacksmith. 100% be a blacksmith. Be prepared to deal with the money by making something other people want to buy. Be prepared to deal with hardships by being too ****** stubborn to fail. Your ancestors shaped metal with a hole in the ground for a forge, a goat's bladder for a bellows and stone headed hammers and they shaped civilization as you now know it. If it takes being a resident blacksmith at a historical site, go be one. If it means you sell tomahawks to overzealous infantrymen, go do that. Get a commission making axes for the local fire departments. Learn to love wrought iron gates. Make beautiful pieces of yard art. Learn to be a better blacksmith than everyone else. If this is what you truly wish to be, don't half-a** it. Beat metal into something useful. Then beat that item into something else that is also useful. Do that 10 times a day, every day until you can make anything and then market it. Learn how to make you and your trade important to someone else, then exploit that for profit. And my best advice for how to make money: Never, EVER feel guilty about being paid for doing something somebody else can't or won't do. And never do free work for friends or family. They will want $3000 worth of material and $8000 worth of time for free. Edited December 6, 2013 by Moderator54 language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackyardBlacksmithin Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Satyrsmith: I live in Albany, about 90 min south of you. I was actually up demonstrating in Portland a month or two ago. Over at the railroad heritage center by OMSI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Crosby Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I make items and sell for two local farmers markets I attend during the summer. I also sell items at craft fairs and now working on selling items at a art gallery. I have had a few commission jobs already and a few in the fire soon. There's no way I could make a living at this now but I'm having fun and making enough money to keep buying supplies and tools. Being semi -retired I can afford to do this. I never stop learning new skills and enjoy smithing no matter if I make money or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldironkilz Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Stompthefire, this is still America! If you want to be a blacksmith then become a blacksmith. Pursue a career that brings you pleasure and satisfaction. Blaze your own trail through this life. Better to look back and say look at all I have done than to look "BACK" and say I waited all my life to do this. Life is way too short for that crap. Businesses don't usually fail due to products or production, they usually fail because there was not a business man at the helm. My two cents worth. I made my own space in this world and I am glad I did, I will soon be 62 yrs. young. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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