Jimarichard Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Hi everyone. I'm new on this forum and I thought you all would be perfect to help me with a question. I'm a native English speaker living in Belgium. I speak and understand Dutch well enough in a social setting, but yet it is still not really good. I'm signing up for a blacksmith course (night courses) and I'm starting to question my ability to learn in another language. So my question to the blacksmiths that teach (and the rest of you) is; is watching as or more important as understanding what the teacher says? I'm going to have to work on my Dutch, and I'm buying books and watching youtube like mad to get a firm understanding on the theory just so I have it a bit easier in class. But must my language be fluent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 hi J, I think you will be fine, Blacksmithing being what it is (a practical hand skill) you will get sufficient info from demos to get the basic idea of what you are doing. Your rudimentary conversational dutch will be more than adequate to assimilate some of the basic theory i.e. hardening and tempering, materials technology etc. I left the Uk monolingual in the 80's and went to work on the South African gold mines where Dutch was the first language; right from the get-go my rudimentary understanding of the language along with some universal sign language was sufficient for me to pick up the necessary extra skills the job I had demanded. Best of luck mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimarichard Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Cheers Bigred. I really want to take the step into blacksnithing and I'm pretty excited about it. Funny that I'm going to be learning in Dutch as you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I spent twenty years working and learning with smiths who spoke sporadic English, it will work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I find a lot of folk in Belgium / Holland and most european countries speak English to some extent and as long as you are prepared to meet them half way, even with rudimentary knowledge of their language and make an effort to speak Dutch, Flemish,Waloon etc then they will bend over backwards to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Cheers Bigred. I really want to take the step into blacksnithing and I'm pretty excited about it. Funny that I'm going to be learning in Dutch as you did. NP J, Although i was a fresh-faced (ish) newly qualified tradesman, it was only when I went to SA that I discovered how little I really knew; but, as others have observed, folks are usually only too happy to help you out when they see you making a genuine effort to master their language. Afrikaans is derived from Dutch though there are some differences (except the swearing of course, that seems to be a universal language) Keep us posted on your prog mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Only a relatively basic use of language is necessary to learn the basics: hit it here / there; like this; harder / softer; turn it over / around / X degrees; lift it; yes / no; wait; stop; darker / lighter; quick / slow; now etc. If you can understand these you should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think you'll do all right. I've taught for years, and it took me a while to learn how to forge, talk, and get to the chalk board, all the while making only one item. When it gets to things like heat treatment of tool steel, there are notes to be taken. You could maybe have someone take notes for you, and copy them later. You might have the teacher put notes on a large tablet rather than a chalk board. The sheets could be torn off and given to you for further translation and study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnicusJoe Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Welcome to the forum Jimarichard. I live and was born in the Netherlands, so I am native speaker. If you want to, I can help you with the Dutch blacksmith terminology. I also have YouTube channel (search TechnicusJoe) on which I have various blacksmithing videos, but spoken in English. Since hardly anyone who's watching my videos can understand, nor speak Dutch. I'm sure it will all work out, as long as you can understand the language of a blacksmith, which is spoken by hammer 'n anvil and not by words. Send me a PM and we can continue from there. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schilpr Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Joe beat me to it, but same thing here, born in the Netherlands and native Dutch speaker but an active smith and teacher in the US I think I have the lingo down in both languages. Actually moving back to the Netherlands soon, setting up my blacksmith shop there from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimarichard Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Welcome to the forum Jimarichard. I live and was born in the Netherlands, so I am native speaker. If you want to, I can help you with the Dutch blacksmith terminology. I also have YouTube channel (search TechnicusJoe) on which I have various blacksmithing videos, but spoken in English. Since hardly anyone who's watching my videos can understand, nor speak Dutch. I'm sure it will all work out, as long as you can understand the language of a blacksmith, which is spoken by hammer 'n anvil and not by words. Send me a PM and we can continue Cheers Joe, I appreciate the offer and I will PM you. I'll do my best to learn the language better before the classes start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimarichard Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Joe beat me to it, but same thing here, born in the Netherlands and native Dutch speaker but an active smith and teacher in the US I think I have the lingo down in both languages. Actually moving back to the Netherlands soon, setting up my blacksmith shop there from scratch. Let me know when you move back here mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Watching if FAR more important to learning than listening is. The key you need to consider, though, is your personal attention to detail. When I first apprenticed to a smith, I spent the first week or so just sitting on a stool and watching how the smith moved. I'd help out if he asked; taking a hacksaw to a length of rod is not smithing. When it came time to actually work at the forge, not only had I earned the smith's respect, but I had a very good idea of how my body was supposed to move. I had just spent hours watching him turn the crank on the blower (Is that a 1.2.3.4 count per revolution?!) and hit the iron. I had seen him move metal in all kinds of directions with very basic tooling. But, I was paying close attention! That makes a huge difference. Imagine hunting deer; you need to pay attention to the details to be successful! Watch utube videos without the sound on. Brian's videos are good with the sound, but no sound doesn't detract from the visual instruction you are receiving. The hammer falls, the metal moves. Pay attention and you'll pick it up quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 As you watch, DO NOT LOOK, instead you want to SEE. See the body position, the angle of the hammer, the position of the metal on the anvil, the power (more or less) of each stroke and from what starting position. Lots of little details with no need for words.You may want to video each lesson so you can review later for the details. Use a tripod and just let it run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimarichard Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Many thanks to all for the input. It's much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewy Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I once had to teach a deaf chap aspects of forge work and stick welding over a period of twelve months. Lots of knowledge and skills were transferred and not a word was spoken. We had wonderful conversations with the aid of a piece of French chalk and any metal surface on which we communicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Yeh Drewy but this guy is in Belgium not France so they'd have to use dutch or belgian chalk not french chalk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Yeh Drewy but this guy is in Belgium not France so they'd have to use dutch or belgian chalk not french chalk! Indian ink, Chinese ink...the mind boggles! Personally I speak fluent pencil... to the OP, I am sure you will be fine, especially with TechnicusJoe and schilpr on the end of an email or phone line! As part of my teacher training I studied educational psychology at college, after three years it all boiled down to Confucious:- I hear and I forget I see and I remember I do and I understand From my experience of many journeymen working with me, with some of whom I shared no common language apart from blacksmithing...it was all that we needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yves Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 When I was a young man, my karate always got better when I met japanese senseis. I never spoke nor understood one word of japanese. It is about looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewy Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Phil I now use a welders pencil, made in china Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The penny just dropped as to when I'd seen a good example of communicating when a language barrier exist whilst blacksmithing. For those fortunate to attend ABANAS Rapid City conference would have seen Claudio Bettero from Italy working a team of ten blacksmiths who didn't speak a lot of Italian, yet after three days of forging produced one of the nicest pieces of iron work I'd ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The penny just dropped as to when I'd seen a good example of communicating when a language barrier exist whilst blacksmithing. For those fortunate to attend ABANAS Rapid City conference would have seen Claudio Bettero from Italy working a team of ten blacksmiths who didn't speak a lot of Italian, yet after three days of forging produced one of the nicest pieces of iron work I'd ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The penny just dropped as to when I'd seen a good example of communicating when a language barrier exist whilst blacksmithing. For those fortunate to attend ABANAS Rapid City conference would have seen Claudio Bettero from Italy working a team of ten blacksmiths who didn't speak a lot of Italian, yet after three days of forging produced one of the nicest pieces of iron work I'd ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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