Laertius Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 So I have been forging for a few months now, built some tools made some small items with the random stock I have (see my other posts) and am now looking to place an order for some stock for the shop, my question is what to buy? To clarify, my father works at a ship repair facility and I can order steel through him, I want to spend about 100$ for some stock to make random ornamental items: candle holders, coat racks, hooks, shelf brackets, fire place sets-- the usual beginner stuff...... Can you suggest some sizes / types to buy? Round or square? Flat? etc etc (the only exception here is that I already have enough leaf and coil spring for tools -- I am only looking for suggestions in the mild steel realm) This may seem like a stupid question, but I am not doing this for 'work', it is a hobby and as such I am not making cut-lists for commissioned jobs -- I just want to have what I need to make some basic projects. So What stock do you use most? What do you always have 'lots' of? Thanks in advance, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 One thing to think about is square vs round. Many folks will say that if you hand forge then you should touch your hammer on every bit of surface area on your project. That suggests that if your finished product is square then perhaps you start with one size larger or so in round, work it to square or octagon etc. Thus the finished product is completed touched by you and your hammer. and vice versa. I like the fully hand forged look. Now if you want to save time then go the other way. Buy what is closest to your finished product. Buy thicker as opposed to thinner. You can't easily make pieces thicker but you can always hammer thinner. But keep the thicker sorta close otherwise you are just hammering excessively to draw out. On the other hand this is good practice and good therapy. One video I watched discouraged forge welding. This is good advice for me since my forge welding is still a bit hit and miss. The thinking was that every piece is made from a single piece of stock with no joints of any kind. Ojne solid piece of metal, hand forged to final shape. That approach appeals to me for many things. That means you have to start with stock that is as thick as the largest part of whatever you are making. Or you have to be able to upset, weld, rivet, collar etc. These latter joints though can be used to provide very nice asthetic value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Yes, I would suggest buying some round, some flat, and some square. 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 on the square and round (more of the smaller, less of the bigger). as small as 1/8 x 5/8 up to 1/4 x 1 1/2 on the flat, with pieces in between. I personally use more of the 3/16 x 1 or 1 1/4 for things like pot racks. mind you, these are for smaller things to make. I have been surviving on a small stockpile of 3/8 round for years and supplementing with what I want/need for other things Mind you, I make a lot of campfire cooking tools and such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I am very curious to see how this thread evolves. I had the same dilemma when I was starting. I still have some stuff that I bought that will probably last me forever. One other thing. Don't buy squawt from the home depots or lowes. Find a supplier. The price difference is unreal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Loving the response thus far: and yes, I have a supplier, so that is not an issue! Once a few more posts roll in I will let you know what I order. Also -- I hear you, most of my practice / learning has been from a scrapped pile of 42'' long 1/2 round bar, I have flattened it, tapered it, squared it etc etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtownAndrew Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Something I ended up getting from a supplier was a 30" length of 1"x1" cold rolled steel (CRS) for use in making hardy tools. It fits my 1" square hardy hole. I cut off about 2 1/2" each time I make a hardy tool and normally weld it too other parts that I forged. Often when I look into making some new product I determine that I need to make one or two new tools to facilitate the forging or bending of hot metal. I have found all sorts of use for 1/4" square and 3/8" square bar. For basket twist handles some 1/8" or 3/16" round rod comes in handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck in Ms Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I did what you are talking about and would not recommend it at all. However I know the feeling so get a few sticks each of 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 then one each 5/8, 3/4, and one inch. All square stock just because it has the most character. That will eat up that $100 and then some. I probably make more gifts out of the 1/4 and 3/8 than any other. What I find to be better is pick a new project and get enough material to make 15 or 20 of them and work on just that until you work out of material. This let's you get very proficient on the project and builds some inventory for demos or other events. That's my two cents. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 i just ordered: 3 bars each of 1/4" sq and rnd 3 bars each of 3/8" sq and rnd 3bars each of 1/2" sq and rnd 1 bar of 3/8" x 3/4" flat for bolt tongs came to $124.60 CDN Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postleg Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Could your dad get drop off or scrap from the ship repair shop. I do all my work from scrap I buy from work. I can't see buying 20ft bar I'm going to cut up. I buy all the scrap round bar I can get 1/4 up to 1 1/2 usually 3ft and under. If I need square I make it out of the round. more practice and the cost savings allow more money for tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 My 2 cents. go with drops you can pick it up a lot cheaper than getting full lengths. So you will have more material to work with. 3/4" is great for learning to make tongs. learning to build up strength and hammer control it is a better size. Holds the heat and you will learn to divide and conquer. Working on hammer control is very important. Starting with parent stock and doing the math and the proper use of the hammer to transform it into what you want. That's the skill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'm a big fan of flat bar. Really useful and strong cross sections, great for the coat racks and shelf brackets you mentioned. A taper on flat bar is easier and more pronounced than round or square shapes, you get a lotta bang for your smack. Seems to fly off the stock rack, especially when making things people are buying. 1/4" x 1", 3/8" x 3/4" are favorites and easily forged by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 No matter how much bar you have in stock, you will find that what you have does not "work" for what you want to make..... Get some round stock, get some square stock, get some flat stock.... Get it in sizes near to what items you want to make.... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 for $100 bucks. Heck just buy something. Don't think on it over much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I always find that my limited stockpile never has the stock size that I want for a given project! That said, I try to keep a lot of 1/4" round stock on hand because that gets used for a ton of things. 1" square and round is very useful for tooling. 1/8"x1/2" or 5/8" or 3/4" is very useful for collars, and the wider selections are great for back pieces on wall-mounted things like shelf brackets or light fixtures. Rebar is also very handy for a lot of stuff, so don't pass it up if you get a chance. I just grabbed a few short pieces of 5/8" rebar that are going to be perfect for making into tongs when I need them! If you can get cheap metal from your dad's work, drops and the like, that's a serious boon to you! They might scrap everything that gets cut off, but even a few pieces of free or near-free bits can make for a good day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 For a beginning smith of any age/size/strength working alone, I would suggest smaller rather than larger stock sizes, and smaller projects. Having stock close in size to the end product allows you to get more production from your limited time. Plus, it does not wear you out breaking down oversize materials before you can even start your project. Blisters are not the best thing to show off from your time at the forge. joshua.M has a good list above, to which I would only add some 1/4" x 1&1/2" flat bar for small pot racks, key and coat racks, etc. Perhaps a short bar of big square stock the size of your hardy hole, if you have access to an arc welder to make up hardy hole tooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hildenmw Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 My stock is based on what I make. If this is your hobby, what are your planned projects? Order accordingly.. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Thanks for the advice guys, I am making up a list and plan to get it to my dad for pricing this weekend. Not to start any squabbles, as I do appreciate any and all opinions: BUT.....I did not want to buy stock for one project, to practice making a hundred of object 'x'. What I wanted to know was what the most common sizes of stock are used for the typical beginner smith projects I listed. Not that I do not agree with this philosophy of practice, and experience etc -- I do agree that making multiples is a sure fire way to gain skill........ actually it IS the only way --hence the 10k hour rule in the psychology mastering any given skill: Our brains need to be 'forged' over time to acquire new skills, and the cerebellum needs many heats to get there..... Every time I forge I try to practice some basic skills for a 1/2- to 1 hour -- and it really helps. That Said:The main purpose here was to start building some 'stock' that is used for many types of projects, SO I already have a lot of 1" round, 15/16 hex, a bunch of drops of 1/2 round........and a couple of leaf and coil springs of various sizes for tooling, and I have made most of my own tools thus far. SO, I figure I will go ahead and get a list similar to that shown above by Joshua M -- with the addition of some flat 3/16 x 3/4 and 1" and 1 1/4, as stated by others. I will keep you posted on my order list .....and maybe a year from now I come back and evaluate if it was worth it to 'stock the shop' versus buying per job..... Thanks Again -- and keep the comments coming as I think other newbs may find this helpful in the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOC Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Another thought, do you have an anvil with pritchel and hardy holes? Include the sizes to fit these, for quick tool making. I'm trying to remember these hole sizes and for my fly press shanks, now there is a dogging down table with round holes as well! AndrewOC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 I do -on my 100lbs ish Attwood stourbridge anvil- 1 inch hardy and I think my pritchel is 1/2 ish.....but it is pretty auged out. I had my son striking for me one day and made about 18'' of 1'' square out of my 1'' round stock -- lots of upsetting and squaring -- but he did learn proper striking technique and we had a good time! So far I have made a bending fork and half a spring fuller and still have a foot of hardy shank material left...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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