Hoary Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Well I'm sure everyone has been faced with this problem at some point and time... I'm not picky about what I use, in fact I've even came to a conclusion that using a piece of rail would be fine, but the problem is I don't know where to even start to look for a piece of rail. I'm in northern VA and just don't know how I would get one. If anyone has some ideas please shoot! thanks! -Hoary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 A quick tour of local junkyards a while back netted several hunks of rail at a quarter a pound. The problem there is the crown on the rail. It takes a lot of grinding to get a flat surface. Finding a real anvil isn't all that hard in this area. Paying for one can be as antique dealers are grabbing them up for silly money. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Skelton Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Any piece of metal with sufficient mass will do the job... some better than others. If you're going to the scrapyard for rail, you might find something suited to smithing that requires less initial work. Sawyers anvils look like steel blocks with little feet. Japanese swordsmtihs use blocks that look to be about 4x6 on the main face and sunk into the ground probably 6" or more. If you're desperate enough to use some rail, you're in a position to look at the cast steel anvils from Harbor Freight. I'm not going to listen to the detractors. I used one for a few years until I saved up enough for the Peter Wright I'm currently using. Yep, the face gets dings and the horn's nothing to write home about. But it's 110# of steel that can be readily mounted to a stump, anvil stand, whathaveyou and they have a hardy hole for tools... can't say that about rail I've seen them on sale for about $70. Plus they're an excuse to but a $15 angle grinder and some disks while you're there, to clean up the face :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 What Kristopher said! A long piece of RR track mounted vertically will put more mass under the hammer and make moving metal easier you only move metal the size of the hammer face anyway so a large flat surface under the metal is not really necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 BP0188 The basic rules of finding and trading BP0244 Junk Yard Visit BP0334 Adjustable Anvil Stand BP0440 Adjustable Anvil Stand (could also be used as an anvil) Look for any heavy piece of metal (50 pound or larger). Shapes are a plus such as the knuckle of a rail road car because they can be used for forming. The heavy sledge hammer in the corner of the garage can work as an anvil for small materials. Secure it so it doesn't tip over. Remember that it is a harden surface if hit directly with a hammer, chips may fly. Just always try to hit the hot metal. Let us know what you find to use so we can add it to the list we suggest to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keykeeper Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Well, might as well put in my $.02 worth. Get a piece of rail, it will work. Find a nice heavy block of steel of sufficient size, it will work. Need a hardy hole on one of the above? Find an old 1 inch drive impact socket, flip it 1 inch hole up, and weld it to the side securely. Voila! Instant hardy hole. (the Late Harold Brewer passed that trick on to me at the last ABA Conference, so credit goes to him.) As far as anvils go, and many on here will tell you this, it doesn't have to be shaped like an anvil, to be an anvil. Good luck in your search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoary Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 Thanks so much, When you're new your imagination doesn't quite work with you on things as much as I'd need it to. Anyways... Please tell me there wasn't a more specific place to ask this question or more so a place where this has been answered on the forum, if there was I apologize for the extra question. -Hoary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 The other place to try for an anvil is auctions. Sometimes they go high sometimes they don't. To find auctions near you try auctionzip.com . You can just put in your zip code and it shows you auctions within 30 or 50 miles of your zip. Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Hoary The blacksmith guild of the potomac is having their spring fling very soon. there will be lots of tailgaters there and im sure there will be anvils of all sizes for sale conditions of the anvils will vary as will the prices Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Well, might as well put in my $.02 worth. Get a piece of rail, it will work. Find a nice heavy block of steel of sufficient size, it will work. Need a hardy hole on one of the above? Find an old 1 inch drive impact socket, flip it 1 inch hole up, and weld it to the side securely. Voila! Instant hardy hole. (the Late Harold Brewer passed that trick on to me at the last ABA Conference, so credit goes to him.) As far as anvils go, and many on here will tell you this, it doesn't have to be shaped like an anvil, to be an anvil. Good luck in your search. WOW Aaron, that is a pretty awesome idea. MUCH EASIER than trying to drill a square hole(htough some tell me it IS easy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Any piece of metal with sufficient mass will do the job... some better than others. If you're going to the scrapyard for rail, you might find something suited to smithing that requires less initial work. Sawyers anvils look like steel blocks with little feet. Japanese swordsmtihs use blocks that look to be about 4x6 on the main face and sunk into the ground probably 6" or more. If you're desperate enough to use some rail, you're in a position to look at the cast steel anvils from Harbor Freight. I'm not going to listen to the detractors. I used one for a few years until I saved up enough for the Peter Wright I'm currently using. Yep, the face gets dings and the horn's nothing to write home about. But it's 110# of steel that can be readily mounted to a stump, anvil stand, whathaveyou and they have a hardy hole for tools... can't say that about rail I've seen them on sale for about $70. Plus they're an excuse to but a $15 angle grinder and some disks while you're there, to clean up the face Yes but if you find the sawyers anvils in good shape you should easily be able to trade one for an anvil- they tend to sell for much more than the standard anvils and are much harder to find. Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmancreek Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Don't give up on the anvil thing....... - Go to auctions. Sometimes you can get a great deal and sometimes the prices can astound you. I went to an auction way out in the country when it was cold and muddy and the dealers weren't around and got a Peter Wright 131# for $75. Other times I've seen astronomical bids from a lot of people, mostly antique dealers. - Look around wherever you go. I found a 300# Hay Budden painted up and used for decoration outside a welding shop. The guy had traded for it and thought it looked good. When I asked he said I could have it for $150 if I had cash right then. Needless to say I nearly broke my arm getting to my wallet. - Make do... I used a piece of RR track, and then a large piece of scrap yard steel for a long time until I found a standard anvil. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftjcook Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Hoary, Looking for one sure seems hard at first. But as alot of these folks will tell you they (the real proffesional finders) never stop asking folks and spreading the word. I found a new idea that works for me scrounging up stuff maybe it will help you. I printed up color flyers on the computer, explaining I was just starting in Blacksmithing and was looking to buy tools related to the field. I posted them in super markets in the area. The response was neat, not overwhelming, but very neat! I got to meet a few old timers who use to due this or that or new someone who did BSing.... Long and Short, I got a few great tools, made some friends, they were happy to get a couple bucks, plus they got a kick that it was being used again and not just thrown away by there kids who did not appreciate the stuff. Also lots of advice which was great too! Best, I was GIVEN a beautiful simple old anvil from a very elderly gentleman. as I left he actully hugged me told me he was so happy it would be ringing again and to please think of him when forging. Just a really neat old Blacksmith sharing... Anyway maybe the flyer thing will help you locate some good stuff TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Another way I have found to locate tools is to join your local blacksmith's guild, club or what ever. You will find that smiths are some of the friendliest and most honest folks you will ever meet. Badger Blacksmiths here in Western Wisconsin has given me a whole new bunch of friends, great advise and some real fun times. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoary Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 cheftjcook, This seems like a very good way of getting into things , I'm usually a loner when it comes to practicing or interacting so as you imagine alot of trials and errors.. but something feels right about this interaction idea, nearly got a tear in my eye hearing you speak about the man who was greatful that his anvil was going to ring again b/c of you. That's the kind of devotion I'm hoping to gain from this step in life. Thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftjcook Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Hoary, I hope it works for you and I am sure you will do well. I think many of us like to learn and practice in private. Tends be easier on our egos when we screw up or just plain old can't get it right. Personally when my fire pokers comes out looking more like a mini harpoon, I just tell folks I was trying to develop a new design for frog spear/gig thingy...most don't know...and the ones who do will laugh with you or show you how to jump weld another tine to make a real gig. And then help you heat treat and sharpen the points. But what Finnr mentioned about a blacksmith group is very true. If you can find a local group it can be great. Blacksmiths really do seem to be some of the finest folks, they are always willing to share the wealth of knowledge and make you feel welcome. Good Luck Hoary TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 One other aspect of hooking up with a local group: I have "loaner" anvil That I loan to students to use while waiting to find their own anvil. Average loan period has been about 1 year with the people who don't continue in the craft holding onto it the longest...the ones that do go out and find their own sooner. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikek Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 sandy creek forge, when is this meet comming up? i would like to attend! thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Beuler Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Hoary, If you are in Va. you are surrounded by blacksmiths, check out Blacksmith Guild of Viriginia - Home if you have'nt already met these fine folks, you will be in good company. Bear is right on the money, the auction circuit is the place to be. Talk to the auctioneers and let them know you are seriously in the market for an anvil and if they don't have one today chances are good they will have one soon so keep in contact with them. We all seem to have the notion that the traditional english pattern anvil is the only thing that will do, and yes, if you keep at it you will find one. Here's my two cents- Get yourself a farrier's anvil. They are still being made new and so are much easier to aquire. They range in size roughly from 50 - 150 pounds and honestly a farrier's anvil will do just fine for all sorts of forging. Tack sales are a good source or even a tack shop. If they don't have one they can order you one and a farrier's anvil won't cost you hundreds. Another plus is the lighter weight which makes it easy to take it with you to all those blacksmith guild of Virginia functions you are going to be attending. Good luck! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Hoary, There was a 350 pound anvil offered for sale in the tailgating section of IForgeIron a while back. You may want to check to see if it is still for sale. Go to tailgating and then at the bottom left of the page, set the display options to list the posts from the beginning. The post was dated 03-27-2007 but I see no reference to it being sold. The anvil was being used by a blacksmith so it has been properly trained to work. Face is 5 3/4" wide, 19 3/4" long, 1 1/4" hardy hole, horn is 12" long to the step block, height from base to face is 13 1/2". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Hi Hoary. Good luck at finding an anvil. Make sure to get something to start pounding on while you are looking for one, especially if you select the path of just asking around and looking at garage sales and auctions. I started looking four years ago, and would still be looking today if I had just relied on "lookin' around". If you decide to just look around, pay no heed to the detractors who advise against certain ASO's. I started on concrete blocks. The edges don't work, so no edge techniques like setting down will work, but I still have my first set of tools made on concrete blocks. A cheap cast iron boat anchor, or even a real boat anchor would work. People often advise you not to fabricate your own anvil. They say that you should go to a fast food restaurant and work part time, then you will get your anvil a lot sooner. That did not work for me either. I would pay good money (and I have) to breathe 7018 fumes rather than french fry fat. They smell so much better . And, the gas spent driving to garage sales and auctions adds up fast, especially after a few years. One of the things that I have had the worst luck at is asking around, especially with ol' timers. Example: "Ahhhh, yeah, I got this huge anvil, and it's jes sittin' by the door. Never use it these days. Wish I could give it to some young'un who can do it justice." (eyes widen... "I'm interested, and I am a beginning blacksmith.") "Maybe not...I got tired of having it just sitting there, and I gave it to my son-in-law." (long pause, sighs) "He never uses it, though. Jes leaves it sittin' by the door. Suppose he might want to get rid of it since it's just takin' up space." ("Wow, I could take it off his hands. Can I get in touch with him?") "Umm, nope." ..... wait several months for another "conversation" with an ol'timer. I've got nothing against ol'timers. Come to think of it, I'm one myself Here's another conversation with an ol'timer. ("Hi, you seem like the kind of ol'timer that I keep hearing about on the Internet. Do you know where there is an old anvil that is available.") "Ummm, no, don't suppose I do, but if you are interested in blacksmithing, I can show you something more interesting." ("Aha, paydirt! A power hammer? Lessons from an old master? I'm listening!") "Do you know about Highway 49, the historical gold road in Eastern California." ("Yes, I do. That place has a real great blacksmithing history, with the mining and all.") "Well, boy, there is this little town called Columbia, and there is a blacksmith demonstrating there." ... pauses, licks his lips a little ... "and she is mighty fine lookin'. You'ld best pay her a visit. Might be able to 'strike up sumpn'. Heh, heh, heh. You young whippersnappers." (What is this old coot thinking?? I am not that young, and my whipper doesn't snapper any more. Hmmm, gotta ask what kind of meds he's on; I want some too.) What a waste of time . Hmmmm, wait a second. Anybody been to Columbia? Errr, is she really like he says ? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Hoary You are welcome to come to any of our meetings The Blacksmith Guild of Virginia. They are usually the third sat of the month and are generally held at my place in Amelia county just west of Richmond. Some times there are tailgaters there with anvils,post vises and other general tooling at pretty reasonable prices. The plus side to attending the meetings is that you can see some top notch smiths doing the demos and meet other smiths too / some with more experience than you and some with less. You are welcome to join if you would like ( its a free membership ) Check out the website ( Blacksmith Guild of Viriginia - Home ) We are having two meetings in june and building coal fired forges for whoever wants one ( the price will be at cost of materials ) All the details are on the website. Hope to see you there Mike Tanner YESTERYEAR FORGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Evfreek; must not bee too many people around your neck of the woods. I know how it is, my current location has a population, 2005 estimate, of 18148 for the entire county and it's about 100 miles tall and 80 wide. Shoot it took me an entire week to find an anvil just asking around not like it was when I lived in a city and could ask a lot more people faster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Hi Thomas. As you can see from my location, there are a lot of people around my neck of the woods, but I am not as skillful as you at finding anvils . These stories I told are my most recent close calls, and they occurred in the last few months. This is about equal to my long term close call rate. Of course, a funny story is not the only response to such a query. There are several others: weirdo (most common), I want to meet you for blacksmithing, can you do a commission for me, can you teach me to forge weld better, my grandfather was a blacksmith, wanna buy this expensive "antique" anvil, doesn't work keep you busy enough, blacksmithing is low class...you should paint or woodwork, forges get pretty hot--do you have any idea how hot burning jet fuel in a tall structure assisted by natural convection gets and how much weaker is steel at this temperature, etc, etc, yada, yada, yada. I don't consider this type of response a close call. In gambling, these close calls are called "scares" and are used to create a Baysian model null hypothesis for the likeliehood of a fair game (i.e. this game is biased with a 97% probability). My estimate is that I have a fairly high probability of acquiring an anvil by inquiring in this way in 5-10 years, but a fairly low one within the next year. That is why I advise the use of a substitute field expedient at least while the priors are being estimated. Who knows, the searcher may be better than me, and even almost as good as you. But, in any case, he will be able to make some progress at getting better at blacksmithing rather then just fiddling around wishing he had an anvil . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 so "improvised anvils" Small: sledgehammer head mounted in a stump; Medium: broken knuckle off a train car coupler, Medium Large: broken forklift tine Large: piece of shafting from scrapyard or old machineshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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