beth Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 hey jake don't worry about the fish - i know it will be good, just funny how the public need it to be called a certain thing and marketed a certain way before they deem it good enough to eat! you have not at all let the side down and i won't tell a soul anyway i would also love to see pictures of the fish when you start,.... its a shame you can't have a kettle - i too have grubbed around for burnables, often with a broken /useless axe - no excuse - for to make my cuppa and its no fun.. i will pay homage to your work when i flick the kettle switch... also like i said earlier - no disrespect at all intended to your way of life i would hate any of you to think i have totally romanticised it - but i Am very interested in it. i know how bleak and grim marginal communities can be to live in ( i do read a lot) and also especially ones that get hard weather - but i still think "civilised ' communities where nobody grows or catches food, or makes anything to use in their lives or talks to each other have a lot to learn and i know where i would rather be a lot of the time. there is obviously a middle ground where me manage to have all the good things in life- easier said than done, particularly when those poor kids are starving away in somalia again as we speak. life is not romantic or ideal, but we can theorise about what makes living worth it can't we? my parents live in serbia and work with marginalised groups over there gypsies mainly, and life has very little joy and fun for these guys. i visited with my family recently and it was an eye opener for the children - a useful one. hugely hospitable people very kind and proud. i have taken them all to india (which is a country i love!) too, to let them see what no money is like. we are SSOO lucky where we live here. life is good, but it can feel empty and superficial - i want my children to think about this and work our what the good bits are... its not all to do with comfort and money, although that helps tremendously... i hope I'm not offending anyone? as a self employed person in a country where state pensions aren't worth much, i have an idea about retirement not being the bed of roses that some people see it to be, and I'm sure you will have to have some kind of plan as to what you will do jake??... will you stay where you are forever do you think? thomas we appear to have similar pasta issues but i do think we need a little romance or as i like to call it hope! for mankind ???? we need to dream also.... your right about the creativity jake i did think earlier on - who gives a toss as long as creativity is occurring be it drawing writing cooking dancing praying whatever, then thats good enough for me. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I think this is the link you were talking about regarding the rolling of pure iron. We will be trying to arrange another visit sometime, possibly early next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 My point is that were are completely immersed in wonders every day; yet we ignore them to lament on how wonderful things were in times past. The space shuttle is marking the end of an era and doubtless people will remember it far more fondly than they do today (or else the NASA budget would be bigger! You realize that the entire Apollo program cost the same as *1* year of the Vietnam war at it's height?) If it twernt for modern medicine I'd be dead several times over by now. Shoot I'm a cyborg and keep hoping they'll get better with the machines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 thomas - you're so right - we must not miss the completely fabulous things in modern life through some misguided past times snobbery. that is not the way forward - even these silly computers enable some great interaction that we would never have had before. quite like you tube too its true to say that something is not inherently better for being traditional or modern - each on its merits, we just got to be discerning. I'm glad that space stuff is tailing off for now - we should all put into one bucket and share the expense - the knowledge of space and the universe is for all of us after all. ridiculous for all rich nations to spend trillions in a dimbo race anaginst each other.... i like the thought that nobody has ever even been up there - its all a hoax space is sacred man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Thanks for that Kipling poem,Thomas,that's great!I know exactly what you're saying,and can relate very well. On medicine,technology,progress,all these things are very puzzling to me,in a fundamental way. Quite recently a book was published on King Leopold of Belgium private little* genocide in Congo,early in the 20th century.(*7 to 15 million people,as documentation is sketchy,and estimates vary). What impressed me about that book was the mention of Joseph Conrad,who travelled up the Congo fairly in the thick of the deal(the writer supposes that Conrad wrote "The Heart of Darkness" pretty much from the actual observations),and Conrad's view on this was,kinda,"Well,tough scene,no doubt.But,them's the brakes.That's what it takes to continue with progress". He was right,of course.Rubber then had a crucial role in world's economy.It helped pay for all the innovations of the time-steel production,electrification,needless to go on...And,of course,medical research. My thought here is that i'm VERY glad that you're hale and hearty!And i do love all of the poets of progress and the Empire like Kipling,Conrad,all of them,ever since i can remember they shaped my thinking with all the Just So Stories. I'm just saying...that i'm puzzled...deep thought,indeed ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 P.S.Given my background,of course i'm only too familiar with Uncle Joe Stalins maxim that "You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs". And i was taught very early not to turn my nose up at ANY food,omelette,of course,included! But,darn it...Here's one of my very favorite quotes ever:"Now,Lenny!I didn't take that mouse away from you out of meanness!But Lenny,that mouse...It wasn't fresh!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Jake, "Endeavor to persevere" a quote from the movie Outlaw Josie Wales And while I am quoting, here is an exerpt from Robert Frost's poem "Two Tramps in Mudtime" But yield who will to their separation, My object in living is to unite My avocation and my vocation As my two eyes make one in sight. Only when love and need are one, and the work is play for mortal stakes, Is the deed ever really done For heaven and the future's sakes. Blacksmithing is so much fun, I sometimes feel I should not charge money for my work...not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Jake now that you are down to 2 dogs you have just the right size team for ski-jouring! I have always wanted to try that! They say that you can go far and fast that way! I had a fire department brother who hand fed a squirrel when he was a youngster. One day he decided to capture it... so he grabbed it while it was eating. While he was running through the house screaming the squirrel ran up one sleeve across his shoulders and down the other sleeve... stopping for a bite of skin every 3" to 6"! Squirrels can really bite! You are lucky that your little stoat only screamed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 This all reminds me of a saying that I came up with a few years ago. "A contrivance a day, keeps the psychiatrist at bay." Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 This also reminds me of a mantra of sorts that I came up with at about the same time. You are not what you were, You are not what you have been, You are not what you are, You are who you shall become. Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 i like that caleb - not sure if i agree entirely with it yet but will give it some thought ... here is my parenting quote of the moment - but you could relate it to work i guess..! "do not forbid what you cannot prevent" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fciron Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Just back in town, haven't had a chance to catch up on all the new info. Thanks for the well-wishes on the finger; the hand surgeon used the phrase "not going to worry about the break" so the first two fingers of my left hand are velcroed together. I currently have about 70% range of movement (my estimate), so I expect a good report from the Doc tomorrow. I suspect that our usage of a definite article in front of "hospital" predates the NHS or the American medical insurance system. I put it down to uppity colonists. I did see Jake's lovely spoon and Beth's enthusiasm for copper. Copper can react badly with acidic foods and make them taste bad; that's why copper pots are tinned on the inside. I've seen some older utensils made with brass for the business ends of spatulas and spoons. Identifiable and trustworthy brass sheet can be harder to scrounge than copper for modern folks. It can also be less cooperative for forging. Forewarned is forearmed. (Hmmm, even three-armed could be really handy in the shop.) Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Hey all,Lewis,great job on getting back with it,very glad to hear that all's ok.(I'll post pictures of mt camelback one of these days,it'll raise the hair on the back of your neck-that 3-speed automotive tranny conversion is SCARY ) I've welded a blade onto the adze-head,it went fairly routine,will post a few photos that are self-explanatary.Will finish and handle it some time soon. All in all,it's time to get back to decorative,non-structural stuff.I kinda hate to do it while my tail is between my legs after battling the WI,but it simply needs to be that way.The loss of control on these past two tool-heads was staggering,MUCH to be re-thought,re-considered,much tooling built,for the battles to come. I'd love to hear about anyone else's projects,Beth,how's the gate plan fairing?Lewis,any more of that "magic realism" Baba Yaga stuff in the works to scare the youngsters? I'm trying to formulate some plan to use the elements of the classical wrought iron grill-work in a smaller interior objects.Possibly,a quatrefoil-as-candlestand-support,or the like.(Like those cast or plastic Eiffel towers or whatnot that they peddle on the street:A small grill for those that can't afford to pay for a sanctuary gate in the cathedral )Just a way to practice some more or less classy technique,without having a serious commission to justify going there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fciron Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Ok, I'm finally caught up reading the thread and I'm not sure where to start. I'm attaching a scan of a fork I have that I think is the scrolly/heart pattern Jake was pondering a hundred pages ago. Looks like some small pieces bundled and faggot-welded in the center. It's not a hard weld to make, especially in wrought iron. I've been playing with some bits of WI in relation to a discussion about replicating some old tooling. Mine comes from an old fence and is quite refined and very cooperative. (Now I'm sorry I sold the rest of the fence.) I think work of this type is usually given "Spanish Colonial" origin, whatever that means. Jake, I could probably ship you quite a bit of dog food in trade if you would put a little smoke flavor on that 'chum'. ;-) 500 fish, those of us living in the city often forget the amount of labor (and storage) required to feed one's self, comrades, and pets. We heated with wood when I was a kid: even with the wood delivered by a dump truck there was still significant time involved in stacking it in the summer and toting it in the winter. I'm in the middle of a less exciting project at the moment, reproducing some fairly conservative driveway gates in garden gate size. I'm replicating some of the non-arc welded joints for my own benefit, but it's mostly like work. It's got a few nice forgings, I'll try and get some pics as I go along. Getting late here and the dog needs his walk. Be well all, Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Wow,Lewis,that's not the pattern i meant,but it's really neat:Wild,unrefined kind of a beauty to it.If i'd a seen it outside any context,i'd have concluded that it was very old work...Way cool. You're absolutely right about the inefficiency of subsistence living,compared to the modern,organised society's efficiency.It's staggering.And quite disheartening,in many ways.It gives one so much,and in so many ways,but the price is steep."Life short and brutish...",as the old saying goes.Still,it's worthwile. Let's see what happens in the fall run,very possibly i'll be able to send you some fish.The fishing will put an end to this bout of forging,till october.I must say that i'm almost relieved,as my forging is also done on a subsistence level,i.e.,beating the hell out of me without too much to show for it. The trouble with WI(among others)is that all my stock is large,over 1" dia.It's not that bad,really,but it GETS bad if one tortures it overly much(running small gauge stock out of it),then it gets mean. Welding it is easy,but it doth puke the slag all over the parts that were at welding temp,making clean-up simply dreadful. BTW,Beth,just for the record:Hot-short is when steel doesn't like to be forged BELOW certain,usually very high,temp.It is the side-effect of Phosphoros. Cold-short is it's opposite,and is caused by Sulfur. Happily,you'll never need to worry about that,but just in case you may run into something that exhibits these heinous traits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 thanks jake - I'm still glad you say ill never have to use that tho!! firstly - you mention baba yaga story - so strange because yesterday i had my attention drawn to this very story while looking at ivan billion illustrations - pictures that i loved as a child. i wanted to live in that world he draws so uniquely! so, funny you should mention that! also totally want to know what your 3 speed auto tranny conversion is.... lewis i really like that thing on the photo - whatever grill type thing it might be, it looks like something very groovy out of a story and i LIKE IT! i cannot beleve it is easy to weld tho. certainly not for me jake do you only have your funny inch and above wi to forge with? this obviously has pros and cons.... can you get nothing else at all up there in 't' wilderness? I'm glad your taking time off from the functional items, i always feel theres not so much joy in the making of these type of items, for myself anyway, always a certain level of trauma/anxiety! I'm no more on with gate info, and now i have 6weeks with no school for which i am SO THANKFUL i can't tell you, but it means that no progress on that till we get back in september. i will if possible get in the workshop if my husband can have the children at all in that time, and work on some leaf /stem shapes and dimensions and also hammering out a heart - which i may or may not do double sided i.e. completely 3d. OR i might do it with the dish facing the school yard and paint it heart booming heart breaking red i have not decided but i need to have a play. i do have some more work with the guy i am designing furniture for - its a strange one this, but good fun- guy i work near on the farm a very old friend makes bespoke rifles, well this business man guy buys rifles off my friend, and wanted to know if he knew someone who could draw... steve said 'her over there in that old cattle shed' and he employed me without delay to design him a range of furniture. he wanted it to be cold rolled stainless steel (something i ve never worked in - i learned so much!!), and he wanted it to be slick and smooth and for the production line in america for hotels etc . its all set up now and he is taking orders, which is bizarre as i have never designed furniture in my life and he took me completely on faith after i showed him some ideas on the back of an envelope. literally??! so its been good interesting /surreal job of work which actually PAYS (imagine that?) (thats how i could pay for the bronze fox...) and I've got to design a bed now for the range . so that i CAN do in the holidays cos its just drawing at the moment. there was lots of things to consider with the other stuff cos its a swinging chair off a stand and one point on the floor, and there was a whole lot of physics i had to get my head round as well as H and S issues (use far worse than my country for that!) if you want to see the stuff, type in WTFurniture Eqillure chair see what you think... also i am taking that mr fox sculpture to a man in a gallery in another place from where i live and if i could even see him in a gallery i would be pleased beyond measure , and if i actually sold him, that would be really funny and great, and i could make another then..... fate will play a part I'm sure.. i have to get an armature done for another sculpture that i can do in my kitchen in school holidays to save my little self from going completely bonkers with boredom! theres only so many cups of coffee and conversations with bored mums and other peoples kids that you can cope with fruitfully!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 BTW,Beth,just for the record:Hot-short is when steel doesn't like to be forged BELOW certain,usually very high,temp.It is the side-effect of Phosphoros. Cold-short is it's opposite,and is caused by Sulfur. Happily,you'll never need to worry about that,but just in case you may run into something that exhibits these heinous traits. Jake I have to disagree with you. I think you have it backwards. Sulfur makes the iron "hot short" (brittle at forging temperatures), and phosphorus makes it "cold short" (brittle at room temperature). :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Beth hello! If I am not mistaken, "a hiding to hothing' MIGHT be the English term to describe what that that fellow is sending you on with his spec. "cold rolled stainless". From what i have read you are in no way ready to forge, weld, or fabricate anything in S.S.. That stuff forges HOT like hammering mild steel cold. without specialized welding equipment, you cannot weld it, I have never heard of anyone forge welding S.S..And finally what set off the ALARUMS in my head is specifying "cold rolled". He dont know what he is talking 'bout. cold rolled steel is literally just that COLD rolled. It has no special qualities that hot rolled mild steel does not have, and the S.S. bars and flats are smooth and shiney from the mill, and look just like C.R. mild steel. It stains LESS than mild steel but will rust stain, try running a carbon steel wire wheel on a piece of S.S. to see it rust stain. And finally did he specify any alloy numbers? I doubt it. 316 S.S. is higher in nickel content than 304, shineyer and smoother looking, your medical hardware used in surgery are made from 316. Piping used in brewerys is usually 304. If you are going to T.I.G. weld S.S. always, unless it is specified what alloy the filler wire should be, move the # UP. Welding 304? you won't go wrong with using 316. I was welding pipe almost 18 years and built nuclear plants and breweries. Blacksmithing for "real" not hobby, but self employed, only 17 years now. Good luck, and I hope you get rich on the fox! Have you seen any toffs in red jackets riding horses after it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 hey rusty i think you misunderstood - this ids not forged work at all, but cold rolled on bending machines! we tig welded it all, but the bending was done cold, the chair and accessories are in production, check the website and you'll see what i mean. no i have never forged stainless and this job was merely designing and working with the engineers. was good fun though and i learned all sorts about how you bend tube. ps re the hunting types here, they prob would not so much get on with a gal like me ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Jake - Going back to your sketch (post #79 in this thread) of the forge welded bundle to look like a heart and or with scrolls, I beleive your talking about the type like the meat forks in the book ( page 43) "Colonial Wrought Iron", by Don Plummer. Sorry I have such a bad picture. - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Ciladog is right on the hot and cold short. Jake an odd thought came to me; could you design a grill for the Cathedral where folks could buy in for just one "section" of the ornamentation and so would grow gradually as folks did so. Perhaps having the mounting holes for the rest of the pieces pre-made when the frame is erected. As just a block the price could be reasonable and get a lot of people to buy into it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 hey thomas i like it! like a lego cathedral build as you buy.... jk - hello my friend:) lovely picture -i really like those - is that middle bit just decorative then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 would be good if everyone had a had in the design of the bit they bought too - so design would grow organically. ive just done a project with two other artists where i live there are ten life size fibre glass horses been cast and ten groups are decorating them. ours is a community one, so we have had 300 or so drawings from children in shcools and adult learners , and we have drawn them on as faithfully as we could to the originals ( quite a task) brush strokes and all, and its lovely how it came together with such madly differing styles, really good to have work with such different energy in it on the same piece. it will be displayed outdoors with a poly something or other varnishy finish. only thing is, i bet it gets grafittied or vandalised i just got a feeling about it. it looks way to pretty... its good fun to work on a shared piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 also - its amazing (well not really, but interesting to note) how much energy can be lost in translation when you copy someones work if your not very very careful. even then, a bit of loss is inevitable. the hand that did the original is so relaxed with its lines i suppose, and the movements are very natural to that person. was an interesting process... thats it - i wil let someone else say something now :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 JAKE! you totally misguided me on the hot cold short whatever thing! am outraged actually ....... good job i have to binned the whole idea as something i shall never need to know ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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