"Of Shoes,and Ships,and Sealing Wax ..."

[beth]

wow those axes.... thats so cool that he makes them - they look amazing - especially how thin the walls look - my other half would appreciate those... i have never and probbly never will make an axe - i guess its one of those man type things? i can appreciate the craftsmnaship and the beauty of those though- they look very refined, .. i will watch your conversation about axery with interest and sure i will learn something....

jk - love your heart hook, you always make things look so easy - i always like to see a remnant of thread - you have such good finish on your work. looks like youl be going into propduction then...

jake of course - the ussr thing and religion - scuse my silliness - i never really thought about how that would impact someone Now, as i said - brought up in a christian environment we were well aware that things were different for christians in russia, but it was all a bit exotic and vague - and you know how things are when your a kid, your own stuff seems boring and easy, other peoples situatipon seems far more appealing! i was the type of kid who thought all the idolatry and pagan shinnanigans looked a whole lot more fun... but of course that was not on! you just felt guilty and pretended to go along with feeling sorry for all these people and their savage ways... so im afraid my understnading of what it must have been like is very shallow and i daresay romanticised... what was your parental take on religion?i do agree thought that we are all talking about the same thing. i do have a problem with the whole sin thing these days - but thats another story !

its pouring with rain here and i have a houseful of children already ( have only just eaten my porrige) hopefully i can fid a way to keep em all hapy! ps Jake - i love your little vole creature - you cant scare me that easily!!! the only thing i have an aversion to is moths and they have to be the big black furry flapping sort. i dont want those creatures on me at any point ideally, but aparts from that i like it all :)

[jake pogrebinsky]

Man,i thought i just had some dribbles of propane,but the silly thing keeps on running...
Bryan,you know that i'd never want to be down on someone for being satisfied with little...I don't mean it that way.
It's just we're in it for the forging,right?Not for the finished(low grade)object.I mean,a better axe than i could EVER make costs $14,with a handle...
I think that i just MAY've established the main points of M.A.'s technique.It's PH,of course,for most of it.
My tiny 25lb is groaning under that W-2.
M.A.'s axes are all 52100,by the way.
We'll see...

[jake pogrebinsky]

Why,Beth!I didn't want to scare you,i thought you could use some more critters for inspiration!They are cool,the voles,i should hunt down a Yellow-cheeked kind for you,they're much bigger,and never come into the house,for some reason.
And i'm not sure about wimmins and axes-aren't a few axe-makers working for Gransfors Bruks women?I think at least 3 or 4 are.

The religion in Russia was deep underground,and kids like me were kept out of it for obvious reasons.People that believed,and practiced,were harassed and slighted in every possible way,and kept their faith very private.In a way it was almost better than it is today,as the religion quickly became a fad,the church allied with the corrupt rulers,and the like.This opinion is not mine,but comes from a nun that used to do missionary work there before the Fall.I don't know much about any of that,but the Mitropolite(the head of Eastern Catholics)Cyril did proclaim officially that the earthquake in Haiti was sent them for their sins(and his alledged lifelong association with the secret police was always widely known),so,it's probably never a good time to be an earnest believer,and always carries with it some heavy burdens.

Ok,i'm hot on M.A.'s trail.I did run out of propane(thank god,as it's past midnight,and now i can throw the propane forge and tank out of there,i can no longer afford it,and need the room!),but came up with a shape that has all the necessary characteristics!!! (Of course,it'll look like a xxxx to anyone in their right mind).
Learned much about the poll,figured out where many curves and angles come from(all are natural consequences of forging that shape),got to even forge a timy bit on those cute front corners of the eye,on a quickly dying heat!!!(heretofore an inaccessible mystery),and even started naturally developing that forward stance of an eye relative the profile...It felt good,i've done my job.
I'll post a couple of photos,for what it's worth,but will be happy to take it up further tomorrow.

Bryan,i now know quite a bit about this particular style...Will be more than happy to tell you all i've learned,but the choice is all yours,let me know what you'd like to see happen.
The last shot is of all the "drifts" that i've used,none of them right,or final.(The slitter is on the left,that's also crucially important,will explain later).
The thing is that it's all a dynamic process,and there's no the one slitter or,especially,the one drift,there's usually several,staged very strategically,corresponding to other parts of the sequence(of our genetic code,Michael:)).

[beth]

very good to watch - these axe heads, couldbe argued that surely they ( or their like) could be the most purest form of sculpture - look how far you can actually change and manipulate the original material to make something so strong and lasting and deliberate... just never get tired of looking at the metal when its red - its the potential of what could happen next - the shape shifting - i would love my work to be more instinctive and less of a struggle - occasionally it feels instinctive and thats great - and then time passes so silently. if you have a busy mind, i think thats the only time you get some peace is when your working instinctively with your hands/tools .

well jake midnight your end is about midday here - im so glad your pleased with your days work - (none of it looks like a xxxx - not even nearly ) - what a terrifying thing it is when people attribute disasters and bad fortune to a person/peoples sins???!!!!! wasnt there that guy recently who said that people with disabilities were paying for their former sins? i dont think i even believe in good or bad as separate things anymore - you cant realy isolate them can you? not entirely.. i think its fear that the wrath will land on them is what drives people to say that mad stuff - what about how those marginalised and patronised haitians have been treated for so long? racism in all its splendour.....

please do send pics of your funny creatures in their bizar choice of habitat - even better if they are dareingly on the edges of domesticity - meddling with your world - the one with the yellow cheeks sounds cool!!!

[ThomasPowers]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jackhammer bits are NOT S7 or H13! IIRC That comes from a listing of alloys and what they would be good for like in Machinery's Handbook. It's NOT what manufacturers use as those alloys are quite expensive and manufacturing is all about cutting costs. Just like Stainless Steel would make a great car body as would Titanium----how many cars have you seen with SS or Ti bodies? (I've seen 1 the delorean)


I hope Grant will allow me to re-post some information he gave once on the subject; if you do object I will have a moderator remove it as I still can't edit posts on this new version of IFI.

from forgemagic: grant - Sun 09 Oct 2005 00:20:49 #0
" JACKHAMMER bits have a hole down the center and go in a percussion drill (jackhammer). Paving breaker bits are solid and go in a paving breaker. Yeah, I know, most people call 'em jackhammers. Having owned a company for 18 years that produced millions of them probably makes me a little pickier than most. For me, if a customer ordered a 1" x 18" jackhammer bit, I had better send the right thing.

As an aside to this, I've had just about every bit made spectrographed and never found one made from a tool steel. The largest manufacturer (Brunner & Lay) uses a modified 1045 for all their bits. Vulcan used to use 1078 (a high silicone 1080) but have changed to a boron steel in the last few years. Most others (Delsteel, Pioneer, Ajax, Tamco) use either 1078 or 9260. I Had good success using 8640. You only have to remember that B&ampampL is water quench and the others are oil when you use them to make other tools."

[bigfootnampa]

I like those axes too Jake! NO I think you'll not find that those $14 axes serve anywhere nearly as well... the Gransfors Bruks axes start at about $129. In a world where some smiths collect Bailey hammers at $150 and up I can see a place for high end axes. BTW here's a link to some Bailey axes that's worth looking at. His stuff is just a bit TOO slick to suit me optimally... but the guy has some STYLE! These are apparently a collection being sold on ebay. http://stores.ebay.com/VIGILANCE-TRADING/_i.html?_fsub=2438353018
To me the key to selling fine axes is to transcend their image as being just for chopping trees (for which purpose they lose out to the chain saw industry). I have begun using mine for roughing out-splitting carving-shaving blanks and also as giant chisels for texturing planks and legs for furniture work. I have noticed that people (craftsmen and wannabees) who watch me working with an axe tend to want one of their own right away! I am particularly drawn to the little red handled one #27 on M. A.'s site though I would like more curve on the edge for my own work... a nicely curved edge allows much of the same technique as working with a gouge and on a blade the size of that axe the curve can have a varying radius that allows a LOT of cutting options. By the strategy of having a slightly steeper bevel on one side than on the other versatility can be extended even further! I DO have a few manufactured axes (more like $35 apiece) but I almost never USE them, and when I do it is because I want to avoid abusing one of my REAL axes.

[beth]

those axes look beautiful to me - lovely curves. i have to say that i agree about top end axes - i have never bought one, but know lots of lads/men who go all starry eyed over them, often at the tree work/machinery trade shows, theyre all really there for the chippers and chainsaws and hydraulic log splitters, but there is nothing like a straight forward hand tool made beautifully to catch peoples eye, and i know people who have paid out properly with the notion to go and chop some wood ... its that ancient voice calling again - i reckon its a def seller in the right environment.. these are bespoke unique high quality items and should be marketed as such, by somebody who can if you cant yourself ( i hate marketing my stuff - not everyones forte...)

[jake pogrebinsky]

Thomas is,as usual,very right,thanks,and thanks to Grant,too,for all sorts of most helpful data.
(As a proof,will post a shot of an adze-head from breaker bit,that gloriously exploded in a water quench!).
Clay,thanks,i'll look at that link forthwith.
What you say makes a lot of sense.The thing is,(since we're getting into the nuts and bolts of axes),that the blade angle(looking from the top)and therefore thickness,differ greatly on chopping and carving/hewing axes.
To chop means to apply pressure on the chip sideways,lots of pressure,THAT's why the chips fly,not from the swing itself.
The hewing axe would go too deep,get stuck,and will need to be dislodged,using unnecessary force.It's job is to separate a chip cleanly,slicing it off.
I'd love to see some of your favorite axes,Clay,especially the close-ups of blade edges/angles.

Yes,Beth,we're almost exactly half a world apart(i'm a few hundred miles away from the anti-Greenwich,the international dateline,so i'm still in yesterday,too).
Axes were always a powerful symbol.But far from strictly male,in most cultures.Kazakhs use it as some important marriage-rite object,and axes went into so many graves that the archaeologists are totally confused!Status-axes were very common,lacking any function but that.In Ukraine,it's a powerful symbol of non-agressive but stout defence of home/land,and i can go on and on(and do ).An axe takes vastly more brain than brawn to wield(as well as to forge ),it's a martial art for sure!

Bryan,there's probably no need to make a drift out of something that hard,unless you plan on repeating the design much.Here're some shots of that adze,it's typical slit/drifted sq.

[K. Bryan Morgan]

Bryan,you know that i'd never want to be down on someone for being satisfied with little...I don't mean it that way.

Jake, I totally understand and agree, I didn't mean what I said in that way at all. Just that I didn't want to make those types of things and that there was nothing wrong with anyone who did.

Bryan,i now know quite a bit about this particular style...Will be more than happy to tell you all i've learned,but the choice is all yours,let me know what you'd like to see happen.
The last shot is of all the "drifts" that i've used,none of them right,or final.(The slitter is on the left,that's also crucially important,will explain later).
The thing is that it's all a dynamic process,and there's no the one slitter or,especially,the one drift,there's usually several,staged very strategically,corresponding to other parts of the sequence(of our genetic code,Michael:)).

The slitter is a thing I will need to do as well. I'll get into that later though. Right now I need to get out to the forge and work on the drift. I see you have breaker bit shaped for that as well. Mine are all hex shaped so quite a bit of rounding up will be needed to get a shape I can use. I can see this is going to take me quite a while. But, thats fine. I do have the time.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jackhammer bits are NOT S7 or H13! IIRC That comes from a listing of alloys and what they would be good for like in Machinery's Handbook. It's NOT what manufacturers use as those alloys are quite expensive and manufacturing is all about cutting costs. Just like Stainless Steel would make a great car body as would Titanium----how many cars have you seen with SS or Ti bodies? (I've seen 1 the delorean)


I hope Grant will allow me to re-post some information he gave once on the subject; if you do object I will have a moderator remove it as I still can't edit posts on this new version of IFI.

from forgemagic: grant - Sun 09 Oct 2005 00:20:49 #0
" JACKHAMMER bits have a hole down the center and go in a percussion drill (jackhammer). Paving breaker bits are solid and go in a paving breaker. Yeah, I know, most people call 'em jackhammers. Having owned a company for 18 years that produced millions of them probably makes me a little pickier than most. For me, if a customer ordered a 1" x 18" jackhammer bit, I had better send the right thing.

As an aside to this, I've had just about every bit made spectrographed and never found one made from a tool steel. The largest manufacturer (Brunner & Lay) uses a modified 1045 for all their bits. Vulcan used to use 1078 (a high silicone 1080) but have changed to a boron steel in the last few years. Most others (Delsteel, Pioneer, Ajax, Tamco) use either 1078 or 9260. I Had good success using 8640. You only have to remember that B&ampampL is water quench and the others are oil when you use them to make other tools."

Thomas, I always value your input. Thank you for clearing that up for me. The list I was going from is quite old and I'm sure its out of date.

These are deffinatly breaker bits from your discription then. Solid all the way through. No hole going through the center. Like I discribed its very tough steel. I don't know what kind, just that its a very bright spark with little explosions on the end and some stringers after that. Also its hard for me to work by hand. Of course my largest hammer is about 4 lbs and I don't swing it for a huge amount of time. I'll work on getting the one I made a cut through on rounder for at least the lenght of an axe head so I can use it as a mandrel. I don't think I can make it tear drop shaped enough. Although I wouldn't matter if I tried I have quite a few of them. Some practice wouldn't be a bad thing at all.


As to my own thoughts on religion, while normaly I would stay away from that topic on this forum its been broached, so why not? I don't ascribe to any particular mythos or religious group. I was raised frundemental christian. Went to church, prayer meeting, christian summer camps, christian private schools. My parents wanted me to be active in the church. All the typical things assiciated with that way of thought and belief system. Now that I'm older, I have come to personally believe that religions are something people made up to keep the boogy man out there in the dark where he belonged. Thats not to say that they have no value or arn't legitimate. I just think they are man made.

[jake pogrebinsky]

Yep,cool axes.Same deal:TALL,slender-ish eye,for a solid connection with the haft.Quite a difficult thing to achieve.

To slit something always upsets it.Yesterday i started out with 2 1/4" height,ended up with 2" after slitting,and now,after much drifting and other torture,going under 2",by a quarter or more.

Slitting an axe eye is not easy.To do it in a simplistic way,with the one size slitter,would take MUCH force.It's best to use a narrow slitter,and go back and forth along the long slit.

I've tried that out this time,and like it,lots.Another advantage is that the slitter is just a piece of scrap off the floor,thin and narrow,leaf-spring would probably work good,and can be easily made and re-made.

The sides of the eye constantly are reduced in the process.I started with 1/2" thickness(too much)but am now down to 5/16".

Those photos of a pre-forged blank that i posted yesterday are taken on that angle for a reason:They show the declensions that form when the bulge of an eye is formed.Front and back.Those are fish-mouths in effect,and need to be watched very carefully,as they'll get out of hand rapidly and become inaccessible.
M.A. uses the rear one as part of design,very clever.

[K. Bryan Morgan]

Bryan,there's probably no need to make a drift out of something that hard,unless you plan on repeating the design much.Here're some shots of that adze,it's typical slit/drifted sq.

Alright then, I'll get some steel from AK Steel tomorrow, I forgot that Renee has the truck today and I can't get up there. What do you think? A piece of a36 or mild thats around 1"x2"? I can make a oval or tear shape easy enough out of that I think.

[jake pogrebinsky]

Bryan,just to illustrate a point,here's another russian-type axe,the Zlatoust pattern,for general work.

It's poll-less,and so lends itself well to the wrapped method.

The steel bit is thick,and extends clear to the eye.THAT is what the drift bears against in drifting.

Therefore,the front of the drift must have a good flat bearing surface,and,as in many similar designs,the wrapping is done over the drift,to set your parameters right away,as it won't allow you to really forge the eye past a certain point.

(That trial for me was a "failure in skill/salvageble product" type.Very humbling,as it exposes all of one's weaknesses.I've many similar experiences,as i never stick to any one thing....).

Can't find the photo of some originals,they're an excellent tool,made by a skilled hand.

[jake pogrebinsky]

Sorry,Bryan,missed your mssg.
Again,it all comes back to settling on a specific direction.
1"x2" should have enough there to form many eye shapes,your usual 2 lb-er has somewhat less in the eye.
But there are NO generalities in this biz.We need to be talking specifics if yoyu'll be buying steel,using fuel,et c.,to set up.

[bigfootnampa]

Jake I'll have to disagree with you on the optimal angle for chopping axe edges. I like mine much thinner and shallower angled than any standard manufactured axe has. I am not alone either... watch some logger rodeo competitions. Those are not just a bunch of local loggers having fun anymore! They are televised international events with top competitors taking home several hundred thousand dollars in prize money annually. The top guys use handmade axes and they like HUGE blades with a full HOLLOW GROUND edge. They pay serious money for their blades BTW. They expect to optimize chopping speed by freeing chips with EACH blow. This means that their blade has to chop free the chip loosened on the other side of their cut and at the same time to cut deep enough that chips are cut loose on this side with their overcut. Their final cut is just a deep POWERFUL slice that lops the log off... this is a very important cut and if they misjudge and try it too soon precious seconds are lost and they do sometimes stick the axe that way, causing incredibly expensive delays! I do prefer a slightly convex edge myself but I like it thin and at a pretty shallow angle... IMO it works better all the way around that way. If you are trying to pop off a chip, the torque from the poll is plenty of force in most circumstances. To my eye the hollow ground portion of their axes seems about 2" wide and of a pretty large radius (maybe 8" to 10"). These guys really sink an axe into the wood and they all like long angles and thin but wide strong blades. Here's a nice link to some stills but you can see the axe shapes well and sometimes catch the right angle to see the edge profile. A few shots show a LOT of chips in the air so that you can get an idea what's going on.http://fiveprime.org/hivemind/Tags/chopping,show (click on the thumbnails to see bigger pics).

[jake pogrebinsky]

Aw,Clay,that's really cool stuff,will look into that link(it'll take me the usual 45 min.or so).
Well,just how skinny and sharp DO you like it?(Feed back from users like you is absolutely crucial part of it all,so thank you very much for all the info).

Something in me resists going further than 10-12 deg.for the blade angle,with the 22-25 deg.final bevel.How does that sound to you,for chopping?

Bryan,i'm sorry that i comunicate so haphazardly.Your news of getting those breaker bits,+ that info from Thomas,make you a rich man!All those alloys mentioned are fantastic stuff,and with a little experimentation you can learn to HT them,then-the sky's the limit!
I'm a total dip in general-just found a chunk of 52100 that was supposed to've been in the box on the way to you There's another chunk in there,though,marked on ends,but...
If we can figure out exactly what you'd like to build,then while you work up your drift i'll throw together some more junk for you,to suit your project.Especially if you will end up welding in a bit i'd like you not to have to mess with Cr based stuff(i've bladed stuff with 52100,but it took some frustrating repetition,for the CrO to burn off,or sumping ).

I'm done for the moment with my reverse-engineering of M.A.'s axe,and seems like i've left meself none too much for the blade.So,if i could justify forging it skinnier i'b be pleased to do just that.

I've screwed around most clumsily to where i've lost 1/5th or so to scale,and am now at about 770 g.,pretty light already,for a camp axe.

BUT,all in all,that was a most glorious exercise,i just love it!My most sincere thanks to Michael Artemiev for inspiration,and to Don Hanson,an exellent knife-maker,who managed to supply me with this,essentially custom-blended alloy(for the price about half less a pound then the potatoes at my store here-incredible...).

I really like that style eye,even more now that i've a reasonable facsimile.Will see how it'll handle up.
Would love to convert it to a compression fit...Darn it,i need to quit even thinking that,and start back on my kitsch :wacko:

[jake pogrebinsky]

That was a very good idea,Clay,tolook to the racing scene for some info.Here's a slightly more explicit view:http://www.osborneaxes.com.au/conventional_grinds.html

Unfortunately,i'm at a loss as to how to actually employ any of that.I have been TRYING to think along these lines,of late,but no results whatsoever.Not a very scientific brain,that one of mine.But i kinda keep it in the back of my mind somewhere,maybe it'll sprout one day...

[beth]

had not really thought of the axe as a weapon, only the rather less appealing double edged elaborate looking things, but really simple axes would of course been used in combat as well (for the masses?)... just not a very gracefull weapon, a bit thuggish and without much variety of technique?? ( am being devils advocate so that i get some detail from you - someone correct me - i know you will!) blimmin effective though... as far as i know in martial arts the technique with an axe like weapon would be mainly momentum based, like circular movements and chopping down movements, and fairly short range (unless thrown!) but i have never trained or used one.

Love the idea of axe as a symbol, particularly the ukrainian one of protection of identity in homeland etc - will try to find out some more. In that context the shape (which can be very beautiful) takes on a very different energy... i have obviously overlooked this wonderful instrument . You would be horrified to see the appalling "axe" i use to chop kindling and such ( out logs are cut on the tractor saw bench...) i may even put a photo up of it.. there really would be tutting and shaking of heads... and rightly so... :unsure:

[bigfootnampa]

OOOHhh nice link Jake! I'm bookmarking that one! Kinda sad to see that he just machines them out. No mention of heat treatment either. Surely you could do better! I know that he is one of the better makers though. They are using jarrah in some of those Australian competitions and that is some hard wood. A tough test for axes and loggers! Watching such things in person is pretty impressive! I've seen a 12" Tamarack log sliced with a two man saw in under 6 seconds! The saw was a blur before it touched the timber and never slowed till the disc dropped! My crew leader years ago could throw a cruiser axe 40 feet and stick it in the center of a 4" tree trunk! My partner on the two man saw was so much stronger than I that we had a strange rhythm... a nasty snarl on his pull and a wimpy buzz on mine. We cut lots of tamarack for barrier poles in state parks. I learned to aim a falling tree with extreme accuracy! This was a great experience for a high school student (as I was back then). Memories that have warmed through many years!

[ThomasPowers]

That's Hollywood for you! You would have to look really really hard to find examples of double bladed axes being used as weapons in Western Europe in medieval and renaissance times. (and the one or two of those are still be argued about as many people believe them to be tools.)

Now axe blade and hammer or spike was known; but why would you want the same thing on the backside? Just use the front side if you need a blade...

The Far East did some double sided war axes and the ancient Greeks said that the amazons used double sided axes (labrys if you want to look it up); but not western Europe.

[beth]

thomas - i agree - i cant see much point of a double edged weapon when its weighted like an axe... and yes it was the oriental one i was thinking of. i will look at the labrys to see what ya mean... :)

[bigfootnampa]

Here's a link to some nice axes too... I gotta say though that it's a bit disturbing that the broad axe is labeled as a "Felling Axe". This smith has studied Viking work and I really like his adzes. http://elmerroush.com/html/cutting_tools.html

[jake pogrebinsky]

Yep,it's incredible what people can do,when they pursue any one thing intensely,like racing their axes and saws!
And,good for you,Clay,i know what you mean,i've put in a couple of seasons with the US Forest Service trail crews,it's one of the last remaining islands of bushcraft in society.Great thing to do(for the young,anyway:),great people,and,of course,incredible country!

Double-bits can be very useful,some people prefer them.There used to be this cute little 2+ lb one popular around here,but they're getting hard to find.They were handy for thick,sturdy spruce branches,seemed like they moved faster,somehow,felt at least very fast and light.

Using an axe as a weapon seems really awkward,have a hardest time picturing it.I've chopped up many a large carcass for dog feed,the axe sticks in any number of most annoying ways,don't want to get graphic here,but it's very inconvenient.
Occasionally it happens that a man has to kill an agressive moose over a trail dispute,often a person out in the winter has nothing but his axe.In such a situation it's vastly more effective to use the poll,of course,and try to deliver a blow like that used in a slaugterhouse.Just in general,using a sharp,short,heavy blade to kill something is weird,from the homesteader's perspective.


Maybe an axe was such a powerful symbol because it was a primary tool of land clearing.Obviously,if you were secure enough to put down roots and start clearing fields,you had an ability to defend yourself.You were probably very violent and agressive in your recent past,and had many slaves to use those axes for you,or many tributory tribes,but in any case,an axe was often used as a status object.

Later,with the further devepopment of sedentary agriculture and economy of produced goods,the craftsman wielding an axe was also the source of much that brought wealth and power:Building of fortifications,boats,more comfortable and elaborate housing,and,since these craftsmen were also slaves( ),and obviously you,as a feudal lord,had the capacity to feed and defend them,it was also a positive reflection on your status!(Plus,when the time for conscription came,you saved money on arming them-they already had tool-boxes full of sharp,dangerous(looking)things!).

So,an axe was a good thing in all ways! :)

[ThomasPowers]

Double bits can keep you chopping longer and then you can resharpen during your lunch break or after dinner.

Folks not doing a lot of felling often adjust the bits so one's used for grubbing with a fatter edge angle and the other for felling with a sharper edge angle.

And I agree for a LONG time the way to tell if an axe was a tool or was a weapon was to see if the guy holding it is facing a tree or a raider! I don't think Glenn would like me to discuss the mechanics of the axe as a weapon here; so I won't. Just remember that most folks didn't have swords. In early medieval times the sword was the mark of that small percentage of society whose lives were pretty much dedicated to war. The "weekend warriors AKA peasant levies were generally equipped with spears or axes as they are dirt cheap to make and take less training to be useful.

[K. Bryan Morgan]

Hey Jake, no problem. I wasn't even able to get out to the forge yesterday at all. Ended up puttering around the house doing all the support things that I need to do to help keep the household running. (Cleaning) And by the time I got done my leg was hurting so I sat down and that was that.

I will try to get to Alaska Steel this weekend or early next week. I'll see if I can wrangle some cheap or free drops from them. You never know. I bought some stock earlier this summer and ended up with so many freebies, mild, rebar and the like. I needed a box to get it all home. So, for mild and other low C stuff I'm pretty good. Its just smaller sizes is all. Which reminds me I need to go raid their trash bin. I want to try my hand at some pattern welded stuff and they have band saw blades and packing straps they just throw out.

I don't know what the steels are for the bandsaw blades but I have been told that the strapping is about 1075 ish. If anyone knows maybe they could chime in (Thomas??)

A couple of days ago I was working in the yard and found a double bit felling axe burried in the dirt. Its pretty rusted, but, not unreparable. I was thinking I may just re work it some clean it up and see what I can do with it. Obviously I need to get a handle for it.

[ThomasPowers]

Strapping varies, I like to take a piece and do the heat-quench-break test on the end to see how it reacts for that piece.

Different bandsaws have different alloys and some bandsaws have two alloys with the body and the teeth being different. Some of the good ones seem to be L6. I don't know if they cheapen the body too much for bimetallic blades. So far the ones I have used have a good bright nickle line in my pattern welding.

If I'm worrying about the carbon content I'll slip in a sliver or two of old Black Diamond file as it was 1.2% C back in olden times. They're my favorite for San Mai blades too.

I used to buy all the Black Diamond files I could get *cheap* back in OH and must have moved 50+ pounds of them out here---which is good as I haven't seen but one or two in 7 years out here. Had several Dealers back in OH that saw that I was scarfing them up and raised the price on them only to find I had a hard cutoff and wouldn't even look at them at over that price. It's not like I was hurting for them...I had told them my cut-off price too; not dancing around in the dark. They just had problems that I would buy 100% of them at price < cutoff and 0% of them ay price > cutoff. Of course some dealers were that way. I remember fishing some tools out of a dumpster that I had offered what I thought was a fair price for earlier at that fleamarket. Dumpster price was OK with me!