jake pogrebinsky Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Well,now that it lost my long-winded post that was in leu of process photos,it suddenly decided to cooperate! I'm not trusting it,though,and will send this.Can explain some of the pictures if someone would like me to,maybe by editing the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 jake i dont think i can bear it...! i will have to take a deep breath and come back later for my comment. thats too much ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Beth,darn it,i'm sorry...I had to do this,having bothered Jeremy and all of youse about the info for this,and other reasons. The good thing about it is that we're now working with the SAME material,these are these same links.NOW,we'll know just what is going on with your forge,as at least one important variable is no longer! Plus,you've a date with the Oracle backing everything up yet,if we still fail to troubleshoot this over the internet. We WILL have you welding,for i swore a terrible oath,consulted all the local shamans,but,most importantly, the Oracle is with us! :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Well Jake...... I'm speachless. Now I was just thinking about possibly having time this coming week to work on my meat fork again, as I was showing a client the start of it yesturday. You beat me!!!! I praise your completion, It was a good trip wasn't it? When I did the first part, I was very pleased by the whole process - a simply elegant way of reshaping a piece of metal. Thanks for the pressure Jake - now I need to get back in my forge going for sure to finish the rest of mine. Kudos to you Jake!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Now,Jeremy,you know only too well that all this became possible thanks primarily to your research.That was,once again,extremely decent of you to dig all this up,and send it,thanks yet again! Also,Beth,John,and everyone participating here,i get a tremendous amount of motivation out of your friendship,it somehow is quite different to work thusly,continuously sharing the particulars of the process,and i seem to be getting a great benefit from it,and am humbly thankful. As you all know by now,i'm a sort of a kamikazi craftsman,a blacksmith-monk,my entire reality is dedicated to the forge.As such,i've much more time and resources to throw at it,vs the rest of you,who actually also live your lives as human beings,having families,jobs,responsibilities other than metalwork. So,Jeremy,i feel slightly guilty,but just couldn't resist,and that xxxx schedule of an upcoming show is breathing down my neck... Sorry about the long,confused preface.Yes,i agree most heartily-it IS a most ELEGANT way of deforming iron,indeed.Also,it was the first time ever that i actually followed a detailed plan,and that made it very easy!It's altogether an uncomplicated process,and very gratifying in it's controllability!I'd love to practice it some more,maybe design a trivet,or a grill around that base element/principle. It's interesting how different we are,in our approach to forging:I've done no measuring whatever,other than keeping it all symmetrical.Thus,i've ended up with a sloppier look that i like a bit less than Jeremy's,who of course has carefully proceeded to measure and to proportion everything. In part because of that i've also have fallen quite short of the elegant proportions of the originals,especially where they have the central element smaller than the top,and the top one nicely elongated:I've failed to gain good control of bending those parts,and ended up with a wider,more sprawling,heart-shapes. I'd still say that overall it was an easy job,but also very challenging in some aspects,and bending was where i found myself struggling the hardest. Petere76(May i call you Peter?),thank you,what you say is MOST interesting.As you can see,we've an interesting,communal sort of a research project going here,an inquiry into what makes the iron forging classy,if you will. Please,any and all elaboration on what you've brought up above,would be so welcome! From what i understand there's a couple of textbooks in German on ornamental work that date back to the mid-1800-s,and are technically explicit.Have you ever seen them,by chance? My own knowledge of specifically German forgework is,most regretably,nil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 jake - its just lovely - as you know i cannot imagine how that feels to make - it must feel great though! i am still, of course, your loyal friend and companion on this subject and will try again with added enthusiasm now you have produced such a FW beaut of a piece. as well as the end result (!!! ) i love the first and second photos because they hold the magic i am after! well well done my friend - your monastic existance is entirely validated (if it ever needed to be) and your efforts rewarded. there are def two diff approaches, to measure or to by eye , and both are wonderful, both end up with a fine finished article, with the personality of the maker which, is EXACTLY what we want. we only have ourselves to put into this stuff, and so that ingredient must be celebrated Soooooo glad your back at your forge where ye belong jake :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 it almost like ,i imagine, that lovely feeling when, you could be making a basket or wirework, where you have to pretend you have four or five hands for a short while, and then Suddenly, your there! its fixed! you dont have to sweat it, you can start the real fun of shaping, knowing the strength is there and it holds. those photos illustrate perfectly. my links will bring me luck ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 translate a pagehttp://babelfish.yahoo.com/ Then enter the URL and click enter choose the language you wish to translate into at the top of the resulting page. This is a little out of place here but still good information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 thanks glenn - that would help with all that russian stuff its sometimes tricky to guess what is written!! ..... ps i dont think anything is out of place on this thread :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Beth,that's awfully kind of you to say all that,thank you! It feels FANTASTIC,sho'nuff,to've banged out a fairly decent chunk of iron,yep.That's the idea here,and the final product is important,as a last brick in a building,it has it's definite place,(just as a first one,and all others in between! ). BUT( ),here's something of an absolutely,astronomically greater value:Our communication here. I'm stating the obvious(as usual),but please indulge me here:By (skillfully) using this incredible,abstract tool,the internet,we're accomplishing an utterly concrete purpose. That is the REAL magic here. A given chunk of iron is dandy enough,but it'll most likely just end up peacefully rusting someplace quiet. The potential usefullness,the beauty,the utility of information that produced that chunk of iron is INCALCULABLE. If anything we say here contributes even one thousandth of a part towards increasing someone's confidence in a given forging technique,then we've really succeeded. We've then done justice to this incredible invention,this psychedelic device,the internet! (And i can already vouch for a tremendous,concrete help that i personally have derived from it,which makes me want to see it happen to everyone else even more!). Of course,Glenn is the first person that we all owe our thanks to,for all that. Thanks,Glenn,so very much! Thanks also for the translation link.Earlier in this thread there was also another good link for that,posted by Lucas.It's a neat system,that,almost unimaginably so,(for an old fart like myself). My trouble here is,however,that between my skills with electronics,and the speed of my strictly satellite connection,there's precious little that i can do(without spending days and weeks solely at the computer). My reality here is tough,in so many ways.After my stint as a gas-pump attendant was over,i wanted to jump right back into forging.The trouble is,that that job stole valuable time not only from the forge,but from my very livelyhood in general,and the winter preparations had not even began for me... So,for a couple of spastic days,i tried to organise the homestead for the inevitable winter season,and yesterday,for the first time in 5-6 weeks,have allowed myself some forge time. This morning i woke to this: Now,whatever tools have ended up still on the ground,will hybernate there in peace till spring.It's a GIANT relief,and that's why i'm celebrating by sitting here at the computer so late in the morning It's all over now,all's right with the Universe,and even my hands are finally back to their natural state(fishing,especially,makes for disgusting state that one's hands are in...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hey guys!Just wrote and lost a long and verbose post,and am too wiped out to re-write right now,will try again in the morning! Looks pretty good Jake, Well done. Rustic is the word that springs to mind, and I mean that as a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Thanks a LOT,John.If i may,i'd like to rattle on for a bit about some things that were going through my mind as i was forging this. Initially,this design came to my attn.labeled "Roasting fork,French,18th cent.",which made me think a number of things,such as : Who was likely to use something like this?A private individual,for their own or their family dinner?Or a servant or a cook,in a wealthier person's household? Was oxide finish acceptable in a kitchen(especially something that was used mainly for greasy meat?Or,like the objects of the interior,it designated a poorer person,the wealthy tending more toward whitesmithed objects,along with the servants to maintain the polished finish? If it was a common,cheaper,household utensil,how was the smith capable of producing something that elaborate,was he so fast as to be able to crank it out rapidly(if so,how rapidly?(it took about 7 hours for me))? And so on,basically,the ins and outs of the exact provenance of this object,the shape,the finish,the allowable and the shortcuts,all that governed the process of producing it.For it all is rooted in something. Similar to the saw-tooth trammel that i played with a while back-to my great surprise,hot-cutting the teeth did the trick for it's mechanics,no further finishing was necessary.What that made me assume(and i may be way off),is that the design was so polished and streamlined by generations of smith/user interaction,that like a pebble in the stream of industrial history,had all the jagged edges smoothed down... Similarly,what requirements on either the craftsman's side or the end user's have engendered the features of these forks? (I'm truly mad,as the simple word "rustic" does indeed have all these connotations for me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Jake - The "rustic look" (as John says) alone gives a bit of mistique to itself in it's own way, and that is a very nice look. Now I know, and you know, that if we each show this style fork to anyone that we know (when I get mine done), they will like it and have no concept of how each others turned out. Each one set in it's own venue is a treasure. No single one is better than the other - just made by a different person. The skill set is still the same, which makes it possible to end up with such a treasure. Jake - you done good!!!! That is what I really like about this thread, in that we are forging the same item, and like you say - each interpretation is a bit different and by seeing others work really builds mental knowledge for any work done in the future. This I believe is true whether one takes on anyone elses sort of style or not - it's a metal reference that gets drawn upon when one needs to problem solve. This is all in the quest for more forging experience and self gratification when a project is completed - even if it's soley by the forger, and if anyone else is impressed a bit, that's a bonus. Jake - I'm glad we can both explore some forging together in different places. - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Very true,Jeremy,roger all that. Here's another puzzlement:Different kinds of steel tend to want to have a different range of textures of their own. I'm in a habit of examining forgings very closely(if the photo quality permits),as each and every blow mark tells a story of how it was forged. Sam Yellin's stuff,as a rule,has an INCREDIBLE presision of hammer-mark placement.It makes a considerable difference in how the stuff ends up looking. Lately,forging predominantly these few kinds of WI i've noticed that it's surface,unless carefully flatted/smoothed with a deliberate,stiff blow,is rather pitted.Noticebly more so than mild.Here's a shot of it,right,and store-fresh 1018,on he left. Next photo is a section with a couple of smooth facets: When flatted,it's actually smoother than mild. Now,one must work VERY deliberately,in order to end up with a smooth finish on this WI.In fact,the project will have to be engineered for that in advance. But it,the texture alone,can,and often does,put one in mind of something "rustic". It does do that to my mind certainly,thus,since that is my material of choice at this time,it actually governs my choice of projects. As always,a random-ish thought,and any and all reflections on the matter would be most welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Jake - you wise one, yes that is a great observation of the surface textures. So.... by using WI does one get lucky to get it to look old by chance of the forging itself?, because of the charactoristics of the WI itself? I do not have any experience with WI in the way you do (I will play with the pcs you sent me though, I had thought of the fork as a reason to do so - to get that same texture). This is interesting, will WI always turn out that way? or can that be combated with more frequent brushing?, Or is it just the way it is due to the higher temps WI should be worked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Jake I'll just try to give my inkling on this I am not a historian by any means, and definitely not on continental ironwork, however my understanding and reasoning is applicable wherever ironwork is found. The nobility and religious organisations (from the dawn of mankind) had the finances, authority and status that demanded high quality intricate ironwork the more high quality the piece the more a statement of status and power be it a large architectural piece, or small and exquisite like jewellery this is what sets the social order of the age. The French fork would IMO have been from an aristocratic chateau or similar, the basic skills were probably easily available to produce these items, and the cost of that labour would be relatively cheap in relation to the basic material cost. The initial cost of the material being used (and making it to be usable) in an item of this design would probably be more than the labour cost involved in forging it. This in itself would be enough to preclude it from gracing the residences of the lower classes as by its very design a lot of material is used to achieve the desired appearance, when it is not necessary for making just a functional tool. It would be a fashion/status item for that particular period., The finish I would think would be the normal practice of greasing/waxing and taking regular care of by the understairs staff in the establishment. It is after all a Roasting Fork implying its use with pork or other meats where the fat is an integral part of the taste and cooking process. With regard to the way your material is forging, again IMO, traditionally the stock being used would have been of a grade that had probably been drawn down and refined to a middle or high grade standard, and not from some recycled rusted materials, that have been subjected to our current pollution riddled system (The dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima altered all that, apparently any material that does not carry contamination is few and far between, One source being from the ships that were scuttled at Scapa Flow after the 1914 -18 war and scrap being recovered in a strictly controlled manner) If you refined the metal you are using more, I think you may not have such surface texture, evidenced by your results of using the flatter which is just basically more working in a specific area than where you have not flattered. It may also be a result of your fuel and air mix being used, forging temperature. (This is a particularly vague area without actually experiencing your situation and forging technique) It is patently obvious at Westpoint where people use the same materials and forges, that the surface finish on forgings are very widely varied, some not requiring any wire brushing or excessive clean up techniques to achieve a good surface finish, and yet others having poor surface finishes that need a good deal of work to become satisfactory, this can be an indication of the particular 'smith who is working the metal and how they handle fire management and forging technique Hopefully this may shed some light on the matter (or Not) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Jeremy,you ask a TOUGH question...See,unlike our collegues across the pond(who can go pay a visit to Chris Topp),we only get our WI from totally diverse,unpredictable in ALL respects sources. As far as "will it always..." i'd say a cautios yes,kinda/sorta,in MY experience,anyway. But,as far as getting to try to control it with forging temp(John brings up some valid info immed.after your post),i'd say NO,as there's likely to be so much uncertainty in our batches of WI that we can't even really any longer use the very term."Old Mild Steel" would be as descriptive,and more to the point,unfortunately. So,the only sensible thing that i can recommend is:1.Get "WI" ANY chance you get.2.Test it,for a number of issues(texture incl.).3.Make notes,and keep it together as a stash of N quantity,and try not to fritter it away on small things,as some project may come along requiring close to that amount,and you'd NEVER match a given batch. John,your information is ALWAYS priceless.I find things in there that you'd be surprised are there! No,you're not a historian,you're something much better-a Blacksmith! If only the historians paid half as much attention to details... This few paragraphs are particularly rich,thank you so ever much for taking the time. Actually,i've learned to always pay attention to the things that you say.Your help on the Gothic project was immense(i'm resuming the work on it now). Couple of days ago you wrote a short note on material removal,it REALLY makes one think.I did,and came up with some very valuable progress on a few things that i've been mulling over for quite a while now. I also,inevitably,have come up with more questions... (It's an Elephant Child Syndrome-the Insat'ble Curiosity! ). By any chance,are you familiar with a situation where the arched legs of something are braced on the inside,with a gothic-like arch,like so: These arches,were they commonly welded?Rivetted?Of course,i'm just asking in the very general way. And,in particular,that cross inside the ring-do you think that it was pierced by some hot process,or milled out?(That's what your removal info brought up in my mind).Or is it welded up? It looks much like a section of a quatrefoil,and i've tried a while back to pierce it hot-turned into a sloppy mess... I am (kinda)sorry about bugging you so much,i just can't help it...Also,i know that you're not very fond of us saying what a treasure of knowledge you are(What is a Latin term for the fobia of being ausphyxiated by ones own halo? ). But,let's be fair here;many of those that did,supposedly,wear one,came by it very honestly,to say the least.The ones that i've read about,like St.Teresa of Avila,have worked their ever-loving butts off,for their halo! :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Bug on Jake, First off ref WI supplier in UK I personally would not and do not go there, I have my reasons and will stand by them. I did start to post a response to JK last night as I was responding to your post as his went up, when I came to upload it, The site was under updating or something and refused to load. I have slept since then and will see if I can recall the general gist of what I said. Firstly quality of material you are using may not be in a condition to produce that quality of work you are looking for. For quality work, high grade wrought was usually specified, and even then the quality was not consistent and the smith would work it until it was to their satisfaction. Forging temperatures (Higher) and techniques used on WI vary from those we use at present on steels Fire management can also play a critical part in surface finishes of forged work. It is quite obviuos to the observer when attending competitions and demonstrations how different smiths get wide results on surface textures as they are forging, some require excessive use of wire brushes and hot files, others seldom need them, most of this is down to fire management and lack of patience. As you have noted, the use of the flatter gives a better finish, this could be down to a couple of things, but I would tend to favour the theory that by flattering it you are refining the structure of the material as this is always an extra operation on top of the initial forging to shape, (perhaps an opportunity for a bit of pattern welding practice, without the pattern and just using the stock you have) One thing that is obvious when I have restored and worked on wrought iron gates is the number of pieces used to make some of the component parts, it was not uncommon whn the items were initially stripped down to bare metal to find that the parts were made from bits of WI that had been forge welded into each other to rovide bigger or longer sections, this goes back to the material costs/availability as opposed to the labour costs into making them something useful, very much the basis of the Waste not Want not blacksmithing culture of using left over pieces (scrap as it is now known) and recycling it into useful stock. I think that covers most of what I wanted to say, and hope it makes sense to you. Gothic bits, another foray into the scrap pile, eyes down and check these pics out and see which is of most use and akin to what you are talking about, then I will have a go at trying to expand on it. I have other pics but I don't want to overload your connection too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Here you go Jake a couple more pics that may help, this particular motif is held together with screws, rivetting and braze. Your sketch as a generalisation would combine/require (for the gunsight motif) cross halving type joints, drilling and tapping and using ornamental bolt heads where appropriate and rivetting. It will be interesting to hear you comments after viewing the pics I've posted and maybe getting some ideas from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Good Lord,John,there's enough there,in these pictures,to study for a couple of years...I can see a whole course in something like the journeyman's level blacksmithing based on any one of these elements...(Plus,all sorts of general structural knowledge as well). Yes,John,those are what i'm talking about,in principle.In actuality,i was thinking of something a level(so to speak)smaller,say like the legs supporting a large free-standing chandelier in a cathedral.But yes,this is it.I can,and will,stare at these a good long while... On the matter of surface you're,of course,right-it's a function of the heating and hammering sequence.That's why something like one's patience do have a lot to do with it. But also planning,as some details,like the inside of a scroll or the like,may not allow tool access after some stage of forming,and would end up looking different from the rest. And in that particular instance,i believe,in the inaccessible spots,is where the difference between the actual alloys may manifest.For an example,this one type of WI that i have bleeds molten slag at almost all,but the lowest temperature,coating much of the surface in glassy coating. But,yes,it's largely the technique that one uses(or knows that one SHOULD be using). John,as usual,i'm sincerely grateful for all the information that you provide.There's no way that i can expect you setting down everything,all that it'd take years to learn in a journeymanship,but every little bit helps a great deal. And again,as far as the material removal,the more i think about it the more comes to mind.There's a tremendously talented smith in Wisconsin,Tom Latane(JK just had the luck to attend a to-do involving him,among others),who specialises in many restoration/re-creation technoques of the past.Looking at the photos of his work space,files and chisels are very prominent. The file has existed as long as the forge,or very nearly,afterall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 John - you sure must have an over welming amount of sample ironwork laying around. Excellent examples - Thanks for posting the the pictures. Jake / John - I was thinking of making a fork from WI like the pictures in this thread previously(after I get this one done) and then etching it to get the grain of the WI to show - do you think that would be feasable? Of course now I see it may depend on the type of WI. Or maybe I may go way out of my mind and make one from some pattern welded stock LOL, That would proove that I'm Definetly MAD IN THE HEAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 oh please do that jk..... just please do it!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 John - you sure must have an over welming amount of sample ironwork laying around. Excellent examples - Thanks for posting the the pictures. Jake / John - I was thinking of making a fork from WI like the pictures in this thread previously(after I get this one done) and then etching it to get the grain of the WI to show - do you think that would be feasable? Of course now I see it may depend on the type of WI. Or maybe I may go way out of my mind and make one from some pattern welded stock LOL, That would proove that I'm Definetly MAD IN THE HEAD. Not really a lot, but what is there is quite intensive and reasonably comprehensive of the range of skills that were pulled together to form the whole and representative of the fasion/style of the period it was made.. If you are going to make a fork and etch it, go straight to the Pattern welded steel. I am not an afficianado of pattern welding, but I do appreciate the skills involved in making it. And I pay homage to Mr Maxen. I also have a problem with finishes, I like smooth as opposed to distressed finish(well it distresses me to see any marks unless they are intended) Having said that, you can see some of the grain structure in the original material in these pictures, and they may well etch nicely if that is what you want to do, ( I'd prefer to keep these as are at the moment so will not try that, ,,yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Just a couple more for you Jake before you you go into hibernation mode and to give you a bit more company for the long nights. As you were talking about fitting on ironwork, I came across this one which I was quite impressed with This is what the finials originally looked like. Some of them had suffered with age and been broken off or otherwise damaged, so as to see how these were originally made and what the undeveloped/basic forged dimensions and shapes were, I 'rearranged' one here is the picture. On closer inspection and after cleaning up somewhat, a repair that had previously been made emerged, shown in this pic here (the only one I could find on the entire job) Hats off to the guy who did that originally, it was just a light drive fit, and comes out relatively easily Feel free to come back as usual, got to have something to do whilst here in God's waiting room, better get the info while you can, you never know when it won't be available, so don't procrastinate. Going to be interesting to see how far/long this thread will run ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Wonderful,John.That bundled element is interesting in any number of ways...I especially like those side-branches,where the leaf/blade shape is scrolled.It reflects my preference in iron-forging,where the iron structure determines the shape.So i really like all details that were Forged,rather than shaped "artificially"(that was one disappointing aspect of that fork,scrolling the ends not by a hammer,but with scrolling pliers). Jeremy,i'm not sure if that fork would look good in PW.One thing about PW in general is that it's so dependent on material removal.I may be wrong,but would it not be strange-looking if you didn't grind/polish all the surfaces equally?And the darn thing has so many nooks and crannies...But,as i write this,i started wondering if it wouldn't look really good with some faces patterned and polished,and the rest oxydised and black...The contrast can possibly be very dramatic and appealing! Etched WI is a contravertial issue for me:I dislike most of it that i've seen,as far as the aesthetic intent goes.What i mean is that people have a tendency to use it as a way to indicate "old".They go overboard,etching the whole thing,and it just makes it look "weird",to me.The only thing more vulgar is burning wood with a torch with the similar intent,it never fails to give the object that unique "Salvation Army Thriftstore" flavor! However,the IDEA of etched WI is very appealing.Afterall,i love to see the grain in iron,when it's visible.Old marine hardware,anchors especially,tend to look very cool!!! Yeah,there MAY be a way to do a fork in etched WI that would be beautiful,i can see how it CAN be! John,unfortunately,as they say,"no rest for the wicked",i see no hybernation in my nearest future... In 6 weeks i've an epic battle with the Public coming up.I'm going up to Fairbanks(a city of about 80 000 people,second largest in Alaska),to make a public appeal on behalf of (classy) Ironwork.I'll have a table at the Alaskan Artisans Expo 2011,at the museum of the U.of Alaska Fairbanks(UAF),and will have printed posters,segments of film running on a computer screen,and my crapulous ironwork spread out.The Message(-s) will be:THIS is IRON(some facts/samples of iron).THIS is the process of Plastic Deformation of former(film + some tools laying about).ALL THIS,is what you,people,are NOT going to have,and very soon,too. UNBURY your heads out of the pile of plastic crap,and look about you,for it'll be a GREAT loss,to all of us,if you'll let it go the way of all flesh... Oh,yeah,a few days before that,i'll also do an hour of lecture at the UAF Anthropology dept. Colloquium(an open mike),as the scientists want to know what was it that i was mumbling and grumbling about for these last few years. The subject matter is entirely up to me,and i'm still having a tough time deciding what would be best to talk to them about.I must make up my mind soon,as i need to prepare the Powepoint presentation,that i'll need help with,et c.,et c. All that,very likely,will be my last hurrah as far as trying to lead that horse to water,AND make him drink.I've been working at iron for over a decade now,am hopelessly in love with it,and,because of that,i'd rather not forge at all than cheapen the entire ironworking heritage by producing awful cheap imitations of what Forged Iron is SUPPOSED to look like. Depending on the oucome,i may re-open a shop space in Fairbanks that i used to lease from a good friend several years back,to continue the Quixotic battle there,for a while,OR,just vanish back into the woods,from whence my vain ambition to bring classy ironwork to the public has lured me.I feel old,tired,and worn down,and don't really care one way or another. (There may be some gray areas in between,like doing a circuit around the bush villages teaching the Indian kids how to re-temper trap-springs or the like,but sucking-up to the wealthy for a chance to forge what I believe must be forged will come to a crashing halt,unless our contract with them will undergo Radical revision). As far as this thread,i'll be out of contact while in Fairbanks,where i'll spend a couple of months minding my friends' house for them,while they take their aged parents on a vacation.Ironically,their house has no internet coverage(high hills interfere),and going to the neighborhood Pub to use the internet is contingent on the state of the roads,mechanical issues with the vehicle,and gas for it. So,you guys will have to keep this crazy thread going!Or not! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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