jake pogrebinsky Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 Some stuff coming out of the shrubbery: Now,my junk pile may not be either as artistic,or as antiquated as John's,but,this country's newer!And,i DO try my best :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 you jake - do a stirling job! it looks great at your place - it looks like the exact place to be! have had a balls of a week personally in ref to Getting anything Cool done, but hopefuly tomo i will find myself with a hammer in my hand and a smile on my face and something meaningful achieved. its at times like this i hear myself, and i hear only my father!!! i didnt know you could be or there were blacksmiths when i was a little girl, but i knew i wanted to do something difficult ellusive beautiful skillful with my hands and creative - i just didnt know what it was ... :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Well, well, this is what happens when I go away for a while, a 29 page thread??!! Seriously interesting topic, have to say I've not read all of it, might take a while to get through... not much to add at this point other than I am also a sufferer from the deforming tool syndrome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 . Jake - I have been interested by the meat fork since we talked about that lots of pages ago. Today I set out to give it a go and I actually got a pretty good start. I got the top end of the handle (scrolled heart) shape done - a definate challange!!! - had to pull a couple rabbits outta my sleeve. I'm very happy with the turn out so far though. The bottom is ready for a forgeweld and a scarf to weld to the shaft stock ( 3/8" x 1/2" ). I did have to make an adjustment on the center 3 lengths (shortened them after being welded) - Enjoy - will post more as progress continues. - JK PS - the measurements in the photos had to be changed during the forging of this element, as this was a test piece and measurements before hand were not known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Man!That completed element looks so SEXY!!!Good on you,Jeremy,you've dug up the info,and now giving it one hell of a tryout! I REALLY like the result,especially that central weld-it came out just sweet as can be. Two things jump out immediately about the design:1.That's one design where there's no need to be "knocking the factory look off"-in the process it all gets forged,if not welded. And,2,is that it's also the kind of design that one can balance intuitively,the exact congruety of parts is not a must,(though it IS a good practice in mensuration,and a matter of competence and personal pride,as well). What was your starting stock for the parts comprising the element?(Neat texture too,by the way,working with coal,are you?) Fantastic job,man,and the first run,too,congratulations!Must feel like a million bucks! Thanks again,Jeremy,for leading this research into such a cool design element,and the possibilities of it's use in endless variations! Colleen,welcome to this asylym for misfits!There's a lot of BS happening here,(bs,afterall,is the spice of life!),but it's not ALL that we do here! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Jake - I used 3/8" round stock and forged it to 3/16" x 3/8" flat, for all the parts of that element. I probably could have saved some hammering if I had some 5/16" round, none was to be found in my pile of reasourses though. Definately not a 1 hour demo item but, yes I was satisfied when done. I triied to take as many pictures during the making of that element as I could ( when I remembered ). Yes, I used the coal forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 JK!!!! i love it`!! very exciting! have just got to get a grip and try this too - i want to be part of the research team!!! iagree entirely with jake that the beauty of this element (he may not have been saying this actually!) is partly/mainly whatever due to the fact that it is entirely forged in the process, every area manipulated - i Jusdt Love how it looks, very exciting! Mr k - tho - i have to say everything you make has The Golden Touch, some witch craft is surely at work here.... you make it look to easy. thats my only gripe with you! what really gives me the buzz is the Process and the order which everything is done, how it comes together - its such a natural progression of actions to take! and a joy to experience the steps in the photographs. as usual am left with the familiar feeling of not knowing where to focus my efforts and my energy. this is distinctly a stumbling block for me and my progress! colleen HI LADY!!! have not seen you on here for some time? hoep things are all good in new house new workshop etc, hows work? what you doing at the moment? hope the shcool hols did not make your blood stop still in your veins like it sometimes can... :)im truly hope injury all better now too - did you manage to get to any workshops at johns yet? i am going on the tool making in october - unlikey, but, wonder if you were going? it would be so nice to meet up! im currently wading through treacle for too many reasons to mention and bore everyone with, but i hope to be back on track in the coming days and hopefully have something tangible to offer this life affirming thread thinking about too many things and need to focus down to one aspect and calm down! its that trebuchet effect of being tied up for 6 or 7 weeks unable to maintain more than about 10 or 15 seconds without an interruption - the summer youth hostel that my home has been - that throws you off orbit with too much force the minute freedom returns - i need to simplify the thoughts of that time in to one achievabkle goal more misfit outpouring - but like jake rightly just said - assylum talk IS appropriate for this thread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 misfit asylum? might as well make myself comfortable then! Jeremy, as always with your golden-touched work, love that element, absolutely wonderfully all-forged!!! will have to try that at some point even though my forge welding skills leave much to be desired, count me in as a research assistant, I am sure I will make lots of mistakes for us all to learn from beth HELLO!! no I've been mostly absent from iforge, I been really swept away with my other life- no workshop for 10 months apart from a week of work in that time, gave my hand real time to heal, and in that time I needed to find work, and ended up scoring a great part time job at a secondary school as a "design and technology technician" which basically means I look after the workshops which includes wood/metals/plastics and some CAD stuff-cutterplotters, engravers etc. Most of the job so far has just been sorting through a workshop that hasn't been organized in about 10 years... inches of sawdust/debris in drawers, finding lots of gems like old textbooks from the 50s and tools that I have no idea of the purpose, think I'll learn a lot through it all actually. And hope to inspire some girls that we can "actually" operate machinery without asking a man to do it for us, put up shelves... you know, smash some gender barriers. And finally I have a workshop on a really lovely small farm, was definitely worth waiting for, serendipity and a hungry otter made it happen for me! all very good except true to form I need to sort out like a million zillion things to make it work for me, fix my mig welder, build shelving, tables etc etc. I did get the forge fired up yesterday for the first time which was a very nice feeling, and I finally got some curtain brackets adjusted so we can finally have proper curtain rails in our house (they've been pinned up/strung up for months!!!) and yes, sheesh, kids running around like barn mice all over the place... it's a wonder how anything actually happens at all.... Would love to come and do that course actually but doubt my finances/time will allow, cost a fortune to move my workshop down south, I swear I will never move it again. It's all just too heavy!! so now, deep breath, calm, focus, oh, eek, can't decide what to focus on... hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 colleen - the job sounds great news! what a superb opportunity to impose your views on the youth! and yes particularly the girls ! and those wretched gender bariers - now THERES a subject to get your teeth into - on so many levels - where do you even start!!!??? the girls can get to all the best places Without having to turn themselves into men... imperative to stay as female and embrace all the natural god given qualities and use them to genius end... show it to em colleen!! this alone is a reason to take that job and im so glad for those girls that they have a decent role model who can USE her hands AND her brain . ! am much encouraged by this news of yours! my sister has just become a teacher too - and it is really a massive privelegde to be a part of these kids learning and to be able to broaden the horizons with them - show them the CHOICES! much enthused I understand entirely about hte whole workshop never being correctly set up - it just goes on and on doesnt it (where oh WHERE to focus ones short ammount of time!) wonderful sounding workshop - will be encouraged to hear what your making when you get sorted etc. Re the ART - the research team is coming together with more and more coherence - we must all fly the flag for the complex forge weld, or at least fly the flag for aspiring to it... i believe its where the action really is.... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 you know the funny thing about these "gender barriers" is that it's surprising they are there at all. In all my bsing career, I have never ever had someone say "you can't do that you're a girl" or any such statement, nor have I ever encountered negativity. Possibly a little bit of disbelief, or thinking I'm joking about it. Mostly surprise, and then support and often respect to be doing what most people perceive to be an "honourable craft" No one has ever said to me "you can't do that"-- It is just the perceived view that if you are female, "why would you WANT to be doing that?" (Actually, I take that all back, because when I was in school I wanted to take "shop" rather than "home economics" but was not allowed to. I was very unhappy sewing and cooking, and still am... but times have changed now, and in schools students get to choose) But really it's just the perceived notion that girls would rather not get grimy and dirty and fix things and drive tractors, or like fast cars, or do any other of these supposedly male things. To quote Lisa Simpson, famed feminist "Girls only know about fluffy kittens and embroidery" but then I suppose the majority of women don't really want to get dirty and grimy and fix things and drive tractors. I am constantly inspired by the many female smiths that are out there, and when you start to look, yes, we are everywhere!! and the men smiths too, inspire... hey I'm all about equal opportunities Jake your forgings are pretty sublime, the candlestand in the beginning, it's assymetric but balanced, and the hooks- the hooks are fantastical!! I love that very worked chiselled look- there is a smith in the ukraine i'm friends with on facebook, Oleg, his work is like that and just to die for, absolutely incredible, all-forged and awesome!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 colleen i agree that now as an 'adult' i dont get a lot of bother, because im fairly fierce about it all ( as i bet you are) but i certainly see it alot of places i look, its just something thats on my radar - an attitude that totally sucks in its limited and prescriptive expectations for our little girls.. weak submissive polite servile the list goes on and on (POLITE, on myriad levels, is a total identity killer!!)clean!....? i mean how ridiculous and presumptious is that? groomed? And boys - i could rattle on about boys that would really love to sew and cook and think about fashion and dance and like poetry and crying and soft caring professions - low expectations and aspirations and limited and limiting gender stereotypes for children are insiduous and sneak their way in almost everywhere - i DO think its improved at school,( i was frustrated and prevented beyond belief at my school! ), so that is a positive thing what we want to encourage is an open ended VARIETY of possibilities for females and males - choice and variety ( who cares what sex we are) (or age or color or anything else?)..... but most of all bsmithing yaYYYYY! rant over for now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Welcome back Colleen, glad your hand is better and you are settled now, Good luck in your new job, and hope to see you again sometime, you know where we are if you need any help or advice. The trouble with Beth and yourself is you're just one of the boys now, get used to it. We ain't arguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 or, john, you lot are just one of the girls - we wont argue will we colleen ! right - i make a pledge - tomo i will do a groovy forge welded ITEM for your goodselves( boy girl or beast )to critique ... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thanks John, hope to catch you sometime soon. At some point I will be looking to buy/build a solid fuel forge so if you know of one, or one comes your way at a reasonable price, please let me know. and beth, well, i like that my daughter calls my little 25kg anvil "her" anvil and she has "her" little tiny ball pein hammer.... Change the world, one person at a time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thanks John, hope to catch you sometime soon. At some point I will be looking to buy/build a solid fuel forge so if you know of one, or one comes your way at a reasonable price, please let me know. and beth, well, i like that my daughter calls my little 25kg anvil "her" anvil and she has "her" little tiny ball pein hammer.... Change the world, one person at a time Got a bottom blast one at Westpoint for sale, or my side blast one is now redundant and will be going to auction unless sold beforehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 thats it isnt it - and lead by example! our childrens mother will be the most significant role model by a long chalk, so we can do a lot by our actions for them .. i sometimes wonder if i should offer more nail varnish and stuff.... i think too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Beth / Colleen - being you both work with metal - your one of the guys to me . No need to prove a point. Well tonight I demoed the meat fork end element at our monthly meeting ( the one like I posted in Post # 579 of this thread ) - I can make it work out good, but like the first one, I'll need to do some tweaking on it. Everyone was impressed at the process itself to make that element. The problem with doing them is that they are touchy due to the fact that if any measurement changes all the rest do too, and that is were the interesting part is - - to fix it the way it is and make it look good. My problem was the forge weld didn't set at first - this leads to the side pcs of the bundle get to thin and are easily broke off or they can be the start of a crack ( like on a leaf stem ). I was able to save it though without any major work. But like Jake said - no need to worry about the exactness of it, as everyone is a tad bit different and still will look good, and yes fully forged with no stock steel sizes. I will do a few more and pick the best one for the final fork handle assembly. - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 sounds great jk! your right - the fact that you have to use eye and instinct in this piece to a large degree will be what gives it its life - i would love to see everyones work im going to give something a go today along these lines but i am concerned like you say about cracking the weld off considereing all the fire welds that ive done seem to have one area or another that is not completely welded! of course, this is the entire point of the Research i will report back without delay .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Beth - if I ever get to England, I would stop and show you how that element is made. By then I should have made enough to get comfortable doing them. They really are not to hard to do - they are just tedious and time consuming to get to look really nice. The members of the blacksmithing group say I have way more patients then they could ever have for forging small detailed items, maybe it's my utmost stubornness!!! I really have it stuck in my mind to keep at them so they are second nature, and possibly do some dedicated demonstrating of these type forks, mainly because they are a very elegant type of forging. I have never known or heard of anyone demonstrating those ( maybe because I'm to sheltered LOL ). Anyway that's just a pea brain thought I've had since this whole topic was brought up by Jake - Kudos to Jake!!!!! This has been a very extremely enjoyable thread and I have missed lots in the mix of it. I really need to take time and re-read the thread from the start. - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Ah,yes,that's my life's mission-Provocation!!!I feel like we,the humanity,have grown far too complacent,it's time to shake things up a bit! But,any amount of provocation would not be much without perseverance in Action,that has fallen to you,Jeremy,and you've carried it off with honor.Great job,man,very clean,competent,CONFIDENT-looking(all doubts and trepidation during the process,so common to all of us here,don't show in the victorious end,glory be!). ONE of the very important things about this element is that it's a way to spread the metal over the large surface. I'd bet that it's use in roasting utensils(as a heat-dissipator),is almost coincidental. The main point in the developing of this neat way of spreading the material in plane was security grillwork,i'd venture to guess. Now,in our day/scale/application,i can imagine it making a really nice looking trivet,or any other device,where the area coverage is useful. Anyway,thanks again,Jeremy,you've given all of us a leg up on this interesting style! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 And here's the kind of forging that I do lately.The front of this device,with it's forks,is like a cold chisel,while the back of the machine,where the counterweight is, works like a rounding hammer. I forge anything and everything that gets in our way,the tractor's and mine! All the years of accumulated, frustrated mule-envy are driving me forth!I need to think of some heroic feat to perform,so that after i die the city of Galena will justify erecting a larger-then-lifesize mounted bronze,of it's village idiot astride his tractor!I'll put it in my will that it'll have to be designed and cast by Beth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 The total length of mat'ls in the scrolled heart shape for the meat fork handle end was 33"......22", 3-1/2", 3-5/8", 3-7/8" of 3/16" x 3/8". all parts are then tapered to a lenght of 1/2" more than stated for each of the tight scrolls. This will give everyone a jump start, if anyone chooses to make one. There.... no secrets, no witchraft - these are the dimensions I used. Let your Research Begin - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 ah!! where to start... JK yes i think you hit on one of your major qualities which is also one of my major failings - PATIENCE it must feel wonderful to have this stuff, and you clearly have it in shed loads your friends are right - and thanks for using some of it in the name of assylum research. we are all very grateful - i just wish i could add more to this in terms of physical encouragement - i tried , as promise, yesterday to make a groovy element, i was ( i'll say now, i failed dismally) going to make a loop weld into a heart, then forge weld two pieces either side and do a groovy thing with them, but after thinking the weld had gone beautifully, and tapering the end of the loop for the heart point, i opend the flattened loop, and the weld just opened up too. i tried to re weld it so many times, and nothing worked, despite my use of the pliers i the fire a la jake pogrebinsky, (i even got that lovely squirting out molten thing jake!!) and yet it would not weld! i could tell the temp was right cos the pliers stuck it back down, and i got so desperate i put my own body weight of flux all over it in the end paranoid that my filthy little fire must be to blame... in the end i lost heart after some hours when i could not get rid of my "favourite" waffler who would not leave the workshop if i didnt, and i let the fire go out trying to get rid of him. i will say though that i then went to visit a very beautiful encouraging friend who lifted my spirits hugely, although the top buzz would have ben getting this right.... can barely look you lot in the eye... Jake thankyou for your photo!!not only do we see The Machine we can see you! its great to put a person/face to the remarkable conversational skills you have- JK i could not agree more this thread is lovely and extremely enjoyable - i feel i have true cameraderie in these dificult tasks. it is my urgent wish to be able to add more in terms of my skils but they are pitifully undeveloped, so you will have to all wait . untill then i can try my very hardest to learn this stuff and max out on your (all of you) amazing help and advice. and lastly - jake your casting idea - you know me well enough now to know how this concept will fuel my imagination!! we need a legend - like the greyfriars bobby of edinburogh scotland- a little terrier that was made into a statue because he owner jock died, and he stayed by the grave for 14 years!!! until he died himself .... i may have to cry at this point.... we could make you into the iron man - with or without your steel chariot - you need to reveal more infamous personal actuivity which i can then weave into a rather stunning sculpture! what an idea - along with The Filosophy of Fe Tome - i think we have a bit of work to do there boy.... its SUCH an exciting legacy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 jk - all that long list of numbers looks like witch craft to me.....! and if you DO come to england - you can absolutely jolly well come and show me how to do it! if i can get The Weld, i will certainly attempt this - john maybe on the october course if i have not i=got it sorted by then,,,,, you can help me ONCE again.... as an irrelevent offshoot - i just heard sombody on the radio saying (re the whole boy girl gender difference/yet equality appreciation society that i run) that the term tom boy for a girl, has quite positive and acceptabel connotations, there is No similar equivelent for boys who enjoy fashion and dancing etc.... though plenty of derogatory ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I will have to add that - the measurements above are the modified versions from the pics on page 29 post #579 of this thread. The 22" pc is tapered out a 1/2" on each end to a final measurement of 23" and the other 3 pcs are tapered out an extra 1/2" also. Those measurements are the cut size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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