jake pogrebinsky Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 That's it,the carpet-beater is out of the shop.Ans thanks be to Creator,i was beginning to get very tired of it,indeed.There was a number of times that it risked having to continue it's existence at the bottom of the River(ice's not running yet,unseasonably warm).But i'm short on bling that i need to illustrate the Sermon,it's a visual prop for the missionary work. So it makes the grade,but barely. The photos may or may not upload,but it don't really signify.The important stuff that i grade my performance on can be concieved verbally. The idea was to make a piece of work that would express my admiration for the design by which was executed the ceiling of the cloisters,at the Glouchester Cathedral(that Beth so kindly (photographed?)and posted,earlier in this thread). The design itself is in stone,so it was not a matter of following it,but to echo it rather,in my (empty) braincase(it echoes well there,see). I've failed to reach a particularly glorious objective,but it was a good ride,as often! Part way into the start of this John has very generously posted many shots of some gothic-(revival?)-type elements of grill-work.John is also most knowledgeble in much of the surrounding the gothic work theory and technology.All that made this inquiry a superlative kind of an experience,a consensus among some interesting people.With much most Pertinent information being put forth. If only was i more studious,and organised the project with a degree of foresight,it could've been a supreme exercise on Controlled Forging.As it was,i've fallen off the control seat very early on,and just rolled with it the rest of the way. The hodge-podge of styling in this one piece is somewhat laughable.As are the very abrupt changes from one type/style joinery or detail or line,to another. Design-wise i lost control,but also the in the technical way.Many planned actions had to be aborted in mid-stride,and redesigned. It was a juggling act going increasingly funkier.Like crossing a creek on a log,and beginning to lose it.And telling oneself:"There's no way that you can fall down in there.That is simply unacceptable.Cannot be done,it WILL not happen" It's possible thus to impose one's will on reality,but awfully taxing.It'd be better to be prudently deliberate in one's forging journey. John B preaches that,Control(expressed,for one,in forging out the forging marks). Mensuration,Forethought,Planning,are all other facets of that Control. One of the ways in which i've embarassed myself recently was leaving overmuch material outside a mortice.As it cooled off before i could deal with it the entire joinery sequence went out of control.The disproportion of parts was rough on the entire process. As an example of how it Should be done,(method recommended by John above),i have a set of dividers.They were made some time in the 1800's,or maybe even later.But they're made WELL.No marls whatever from forging,and joinery beautiful in it's Rightness. I'll sneak a photo in as i can,this thing works better some times than others,the photo upload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Heigh-ho,it actually let me put up a few shots! The thing,done but for the final tweakment,and the finish of some sort: This neat pair of dividers that i've stolen from my teacher Phil,an example to me of a controlled project: And now my messy rivetted tenons....Fie,it was the tail-end of a grueling day,and a thousand other excuses.Still,Fie!For shame,they weren't half bad before rivetting,neither male or female of them. Some other failures,interspersed with small victories,as usual. But all in all,i likes it. As infended, it's a heavy xxxx of a candlestick,meant to sit next to a fireplace,possibly on some low stool.To come out when the need for candles manifests,to be toe-stubbing heavy,so as to be safe,and not be easily jarred dumping the burning candles. The candlecups themselves are a heavy,fat-walled WI affair,capable of a correspondingly fat candle to be stuffed into one. Fat,at least theoretically,should equal long,as well.The top of the stand is about knee-high. So,seated,a reasonable long candle should get the light over the top of a book page,held by a person seated lower than otherwise,rocker,maybe. Reading is exhorbitant,maybe knitting,or just sitting up with a candle and a fire. Such candles would,probably,dribble all over the place.Great!I like the stalagmitic wax formations on my wrought junk!I desire them,and build accordingly. And if one's floor can't handle a bit of wax,then one's not living right!Get you some good plank flooring,and support your local carpenter,smith and candlemaker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Jake, no problem at all. I'm glad he was brought up so more can learn about him. I must say I admire you and your work. Your determination and drive is top notch! I don't see many smiths that are creating so much work, and in the name of learning. Quite the challenge! Keep up the great work! Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Great,Randy,i agree that people should absolutely be aware of Christopher's work,it's tremendously important:The man was so FLUENT at the language of steel.It mattered not at all what tools he used to achieve it,the technique simply disappears for him,in achieving the shape that he was going for.And that was just one facet of his brilliancy as a metalworker,in so many other ways his work is stupendously germaine for anyone ever hoping to develop a relationship with steel.He's had It,the quintessence,the Love for iron,and it was requited... And i'm but a poor student,an adept,at best,and will probably always remain an amature.Thanks for your kind words,i do try,in my own,feeble fashion,to do justice to Fe. In a Sufi tradition,here's a fable:I've travelled to parts of the state last winter that i've not visited in years.In one small town where i've lived before i've visited an old friend,Peter. Peter's an old commercial fisherman,and a Falstaff-like character in many ways.Interesting thing about him is his amasing,perennial,completely undeserved Luck.He just has it,that's all.On a number of occasions he even usedit in critical times to make money gambling,it's that solid,his luck is,very real. In a more-or-less joking/bantering sort of way i've asked him why is it he thinks that he deserved such a gift,this incredible luck of his.Peter answered also jokingly,but his answer rang like an awsome,Universal truth in my brain,"It's because i Love dogs,and fat chicks",he said. Now i'm getting too old for the latter,and have consecrated the remainder of my life to being a blacksmith-monk,anyway,so i'll change all that slightly,to: "dogs, and fat little chunks of Iron",and hope for the best... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Great,Randy,i agree that people should absolutely be aware of Christopher's work,it's tremendously important:The man was so FLUENT at the language of steel.It mattered not at all what tools he used to achieve it,the technique simply disappears for him,in achieving the shape that he was going for.And that was just one facet of his brilliancy as a metalworker,in so many other ways his work is stupendously germaine for anyone ever hoping to develop a relationship with steel.He's had It,the quintessence,the Love for iron,and it was requited... jake - that was so brilliantly put - your command of language stops me in my tracks!!! i hope christopher can read that from wherever he be now.... i do agree he is beyond technique, although he obviously gets off on the detail of the process, to read his descriptions in his techniques section is wonderful. would love to have known him - tell us some more randy!? love peters quote too - its like thought for the day on here ! i adore dogs and fat iron - is this auspicsious then do you reckon?? fantastic......! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Here, here, to you both! Or is it Hear, hear? Our crazy language! I enjoyed watching Chris work and in learning the background on the pieces that Chris made. The Mansects were mostly his daughters at various stages of their lives. The pieces show such attitute of the creatures that they truly come to life. He was a true artist. He was a real down to earth guy that could converse with all walks of life and he had lots of friends, tho he was mostly alone in the middle of a city. One would think that his education and skill would allow him to be a great success, but his own beliefs held him back to the point that he was quite poor when he died. He did have success for a period of time. He has some wonderful grilles and gates and sculpture in Philly and his Mansects became very popular. But then collectors started buying them as an investment and Chris didn't like that. He wanted a personal connection with his work and he decided he would rather not sell his work if he couldn't have people that appreciated and understood his works. If he had only taken control of his business I'm sure he would have been very weathy. Sad, but as much as this bothers me I believe it's a lesson for us all. Be thankful for the opportunities that we get and use them to grow in all of our lives. I've seldom had the time to just try new items as you do, Jake, but have grown by taken jobs to learn and live from. I've had students say that they wouldn't take a job because they had never made such an item. I say that I take the job to learn how to make it. I'm paid to learn. I think the tough part is when you are making a living from this craft that whatever I design I'm always looking at the dollar signs. I know how to price it but how and where will it sell? They say do what you love and the dollars will flow, but for me that's tough when making a living gets in the way. Though this has been a good way to learn the craft it has been a hard way for me to specialize in something. To get known for doing something. To have a reputation in a particular design or something where clients keep coming to you. Do you know what I mean? To have the opportunity to play more without the other pressures would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Well Jake , I take my hat off and salute you, A unique item, and a great learning exercise, Priceless, and it turned out COOL! Well done, looking forward to your next project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 randy i understand what youre saying - and i TOTALLY learn on the job every time at this stage of my skill levels...! my husband and i have always taken on jobs in the work we are doing at the time and found a way to do them later - its the only way when self employed.. personally i find the whole client thing very tricky because your not very often expressing youself as an artist, but expressing what you think is the clients tastes.. this makes the money, but it is not very fulfilling in terms of furthering your own expression. i had to set up an exhibition today with a small amount of my work in it, and all the talk of customers and pricing makes me cringe and disengage - luckily the other people im working with sorted all that for me. and i profoundly prefer the sitiuation where i make something i like and then try to sell it, that way round is better creatively, but less lucrative!i i am in the fortunate position of not being the main wage eaerner. (my work/contribution for our family is pretty much unpaid, in financial terms. !) your friend christopher sounds a bit like my father in matters business, he is a very principaled man and found it impossible when self employed to charge those he felt could barely afford the work, he ended making a loss, not because he was stupid, far from that, but he didnt find it acceptable that someone should have less than himself.. specially when he was in a position to help. some people are far more interested in the principal of what how why of their work than the dollas and are prepared to live frugally to support their principals. my dad still lives like it and tho he will never ever be rich - i love him for his attitude. i know a man who does beautiful leaded light work and stained glass, that has taken work down out of peoples properties because he thinks they do not love it enough or in the right way - some people call him a madman, and he is notoriously difficult to get along with ( tho ive never had a problem) but i just call him a man who can easier live skint than at dis - ease with his work being in the Wrong Place, as he sees it. some things matter more at certain points to certain people than being paid. i often like those people! your mate sounds a cracker! randy what type of work are you doing?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Chris Ray's untimely death,and the circumstances surrounding it,are an Unspeakable tragedy.I ran in here yesterday,to quickly scan through the messages,and went back to the forge to grieve for him,for the way it went,for the rest of us, It is possible,i Want to think,to be a good craftsman,a good human being,And a functioning member of society,but that mystery is hidden from me(and very possibly always will remain hidden). My own way to insure that i've a choice,that i do what work deserves doing,Randy,was accomplished by throwing my family to the wolves,by breaking many a social and human contract. I'm stating this for the record,as you've come into this discussion somewhat later,and now i'll again confine my comments to forgework.But if someone has Any ideas of how to do decent ironwork and not starve to death in the process i'd love to hear that... Learning by getting jobs that are challenging sounds marvelous,would be lovely to hear about it,too,thanks,Beth,for always asking the pertinent questions on here(also,there's again this sort of a period where i'm too wiped out by forging to comment on all the wonderfull things that come up,i'm sorry about glossing over much that really deserves mulling over...). Rough day at the forge yesterday,lengh-wise,close to 12 hours.I try to avoid that,as the wave of dysfunction rolls into the next few days after,undone chores,un-maintained tools,all sorts of payback. But i just couldn't stop myself-the project fascinated me a long time now. It's a type of trivet construction that is familiar to me through D.Plummer's book,but i believe stems from the English countryside.And,possibly unjustifiably,i want to think that it goes all the way to the dawn of ironworking,to Roman times and even beyond,to working bloomery iron. The joinery just makes me feel that,where it was easier to make a weld than have a steel tool like a punch,say,to make a riveted joint . I wondered if that effect would kick in,where the project is kind of Happening,almost of itself,parts falling into place,and it Did!I believe this to be the effect of following in the footsteps of countless generations of smiths refining the essence of the given construction.Then,when i look at a picture,i'm looking at all these techniques that have worked in with each other,and the whole distilled... Originally,i wanted to get away from flying on instruments into the regular,measured,controlled forging.It Almost worked!It would have,but for my choice of material:Making my own stock,impatiently,of course,the irregularity creeps in,the mensuration becomes more approximate,tending to intuitive.That changes the look to "rustic"(if you're lucky,to "incompetent" more often). The hurry contributes to the final impression coming from the piece,but it's a stick of two ends:Becides the sloppiness and carelessness that it (usually)spells out,it Can harken back to the "real" conditions under which the object of use,made for the household of a poor commoner,was produced.(I'm not going to go on and on,we all here know about having hammer-marks or not,and all these prticulars,i'm just doing a quick sketch,knowing that YOU know ). Anyhoo,it's one COOL design!Especially in the latter stages,when it begins to come together,it,again,seems to Want to do that! Much adjustment is possible,and easy to execute,at every juncture.The welds are all easy,mostly faggoted(of course,the main one,where it all comes together,was the one to go weird on me...But,i Do have enough steel around for punching for rivets ). Sizing the stock took a Huge amount of time,and fuel.I can see how the same would be a breeze with rolled stock of proper sizes. I completely ran out of fuel,and didn't even get to finish the handle end,so 40-50 lbs of charcoal all together. But again,with rolled stock,some welds substituted by rivets,and Proper attention to mensuration,and it'd take only a few hours(and look less "rustic" ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 NICE trivet Jake! I look forward to seeing what you make for the handle. Just rustic enough to fit properly in it's medium (wrought iron) IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Thanks,Clay,and yep,the WI is my salvation-all my "rusticity" would quickly be known for what it really is,against the geometry/symmetry of rolled stock! There's this timeless sort of a design often seen on like objects,it's like a set of "ram's horns",with the split flatteded.It finishes a section that has been fullered wider,allowing a place for the back of your palm to rest,to bear the weight.Meanwhile,the "horns" serve as a mushroom,to keep the load from slipping forward out of one's hand. Such are the loads that i intuit a similar tools creates,and such is my proposed idea of a proper way to address these loads.I'll post a photo when it's done,and tell you if it worked,too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Here you go,Clay,that's how i've ended up doing it: Works ok,and was the best way that i could think of,to match the overall "iron age" look that developed.I've straightened some of the undulations,just to see if i could,but left it still fairly wiggly. Sturdy design,i can jump up and down on it in my boots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Looks good Jake! The only suggestion that I have is to make sure that it will hold a pot level... looks as though perhaps the bar the handle passes through might need to be bent down slightly so as to keep a level surface on top... but maybe you've done that already? Seems like that handle design invites a double hook to hang it with. Never any good place to stop is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 jake:) LOve the handle the wiggly bits the iron age looks and the undulations.. its wonderful - i would buy it if i saw it for sale. dont aim to slick your style up TOO much will you...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Aw,you guys are entirely too nice-remember,my Eastern European nature thrives on abuse and denigration!All these positive reviews are destructive to my creative process!But,thanks,anyway Yesterday,i've escaped from the righteousness,the Holiness,of my Plastic Deformation devotional life,straight into the Whoredom of Reduction!Man,that felt great!!! My buddy Phil has a beautiful shop that he lets me into sometimes,when i've been good,and i went to commune with his 2" x 72" belt grinder,this time. Me and the grinder went through the entire Kama Sutra set of positions,were at it for many hours on end,it's been so long...While Phil brought us mugs of his excellent home-brewed Ale.It was vile debauchery,and i barely made it home afterwards. Now i have a basketful of ground objects,the fruit of all that Sin,and it's time to see just how many will survive the quench.Back into that cruel(but purefying)forge-fire,alas!For they look so cute all nice&ground...Brief indeed,so fleeting,everything is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 get back to the filth of your forge jake - where you belong! at once! and take your feeble reductive Fe flotsam with your sorry self, do not consider darkening the door of this thread again (i dont mean that bit ) far better, i agree, for the creative process... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 As in:"Go,and Sin no more!"?Thank you,thank you!I promise,it won't happen again(for a while )! In order to be Saved,you have to repent. In order to repent,you have to Sin. So,in order to be Saved,you have to Sin! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I think it must be sinful to THINK like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Beth, good to hear your input. What kind of work am I doing? I've been trying to focus on the forging press and do some real squishing. I love to get pieces that look like I've had my hands, literally in it. Like clay. Also whimsical pieces, some punny. Puns worked into what they are. A play on words. That's my goal and passion, but meanwhile I do what comes in. From restoration to contemporary. Steel, bronze and titanium. Letter openers to entranceways. Best thing is to check out my website listed below. I also love teaching forging and have been around this country and recently even to Newfoundland to do a workshop in tool making. Even in my workshops I trying to impress on the students how hot metal works like clay. I love seeing what Jake is doing and his progress. His mind set is very valuable. At times I wish I could start over, but the mind has already been twisted. So move on and enjoy what comes next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 WOW,Randy,that is some really neat stuff!That last thing is incredible(and it looks like a serious,double-ram press behind it,40 t or better...).Jeremy was just remarking on importance of Deep,Defined,Deliberate impressing into steel! I respect that philosophy a lot,the Plasticity of the Crystalline or the Molecular substance of steel(always forget which is it in what phase)is,of course,the whole point in forging,10-4 on that. Whimsy,of course,is a Higher form of any craft(love it but have to bow to the humourlessness of my own ineptitude...All the incompetence takes itself (childishly) seriously,as a rule,and conversely,the competent feel free and unencumbered to frolic ). The imprinting reminded me this old,dated movie,that a couple of hippies put together in the '70-ies as a do-it-yourself tourist guide to the Indonesia/Java area.There they mention those local mystical and revered Empu,who are rumored to edge-quench a blade with their fingers!(The Very Hot ones-with their lips! ).As a proof,one can get a souvenir locally where the fingerprints(or the lip-prints,for a price!),on the edge of that Keris are clearly visible imprinted in steel. Which,in turn,reminds me of one friend of my father's,in the Old Country,who claimed inventorship of this curious silver-etching process,thereby he cast a signet ring with an exact impression of the owner's fingerprint(but there was no magic there,just some way of accurate tranfer of masking).Convenient product,though,for those that still use a signet and seal. All in all,this is a Wonderful discussion,it's about all that's most important,and valuable,and magic in metalwork.Thanks so much for joining us here,it's terribly important to think of all that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 randy - thanks! those pictures are wonderful, i love to see this type of work on here - and as usual its easy to agree completely with what jake just expressed (his mindset is indeed very valuable ) its the depth of the impressions that really appeal to me, i enjoy that massive/mass deformation of the bigger chunks, but for instance the tire tracks or whatever it is on photo 3, its the nature and definateness of the marks that makes me want them, and want to make them. they are so unappologetic and clear in their intention!! i think its like, as well, if you listen to piano music as a pianist, or drum solo as a drummer, you can not only enjoy it audio -lly ..(is that a word! ? aurally?) but you can enjoy it physically kinesthetically in your body and muscles and brain becuase you have at least a concept of what the playre feels like, what it Feels like to make those noises, its the same with these very physical looking pieces, you can relate these marks and pressure points where something has been hammered/pushed/stamped to your own experience of moving /deforming clay and or metal. it just brings the marks to life for me that kind of link. for me its a lesser experience Visually if i cant connect kinesthetically. did that make any sense - i may not have the correct vocabulary . i wish i coudl find a picture i once saw of =some large Fat clay like lumps of decorated iron that took my breath away some years ago, and that is entirely the look and feel of what i wanted to make (still trying slooooowly!) and we are talking of that very thing here. THAT is why i love yours too jake , becasue it may not have been perfectly executed at every point ( although - i need to get across that this is not in even the tiniest way pfroblematic or an insult - you know its not jake!!) but it has such a physicality to it, and thats exactly why it is so touching, and so human. i like to see the journey that has been taken, and randy you can see the human touch on your work to. this is what i ADORE!! thanks chaps :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I think what has been interesting in this thread is that tho we're discussing forging hot metal and the lessons learned in doing so we have moved into how it affects us, not only in creating it but also in observing it. I believe at this point we're talking about art. It moves us and becomes apart of us. Years ago we had a meeting sponsored by ABANA on ironwork and art. It was held at Penland in North Carolina. Quite the amazing get together as it wasn't a how-to but our relationship with it. I never saw so many grown men cry, as when you ask about ones art you ask about ones self, and that is very touching. It gives the child in us permission to play and touch upon the joys and sorrows of our lives. I didn't intentionally start out on this journey towards art. I started doing colonial reproduction ironwork back during the bicentennial. Then I took a workshop in animal heads and natural forms with Ivan Bailey. It's all took off in a different direction ever since. But with out learning the basics of hammering and design of the colonial items I wouldn't have been able to grow into what I'm doing now. I sure didn't have any artistic talent before. The press I have is a double cylinder 60 ton and it gives me the squish I've been looking for. I'd love to find some 3" round or square wrought iron to push around as the pure iron I've done is just sweet! Beth, the tire tracks are on a piece of wagon tire that's flattened out. So one of my punnies, a tire on a tire. Old school run over by new school. One of my road kill series. The textures that I'm creating are just another way to accentuate the movement of the work. I love texture! That's one of the reasons that I like titanium. It gets a texture that no other metal achieves. Like elephant skin. Anyway, Jake you definitely has the mindset to move into some real artistic works. You're already feeling it with whay you're doing now. I bet it will come in time if you allow your self to go that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 aha i like your pun now i understand - you lot call a tyre a tire dont you? i was semi confused wheni read the title (a state i am unfortunately in almost permenantly...) so is the last photo titanium? what make sit so good to work? if that isnt it, can you show is some? the hand - that came out wonderfully hand like - i am - if your a true devotee/disciple of this thread you may know, a fan of the human hand - is this made in like ness of your own or is it a more generic hand? i cant imagine how you held it to get it to look like that when working it.... have just noticed your name on the bottom of your post - have you written books about this - i recognise the name - apologies if i have missed something very obvious that i should have known? i think i may even have a book by you (self doubt always a close companion- can never work out if i have just made something up or imagined it or if it is infact a Fact ! )its interesting you say you had no artistic talent before - i somehow believe everyone has it somewhere, this side of us just gets harder and longer to access it the more time it spends ignored. all kids are artistic arent they? we are created (from something, by someone or something depending on your belief) so then we ourselves create - its only natural expressing yourself visually has some sort of power that words never can quite achieve, the subtleties are endless and limitless, unlike language (which is pretty good, but not endless..) and it also has a completion and an end in itself that talking cant get to. I Lik eit :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 All that came up in these last couple of posts just blows me away with it's validity.Makes me so proud to have anything at all to do with this ironworking culture of a past few decades,to've at least in some remote sense shared in thoughts involved in our relationship to this material.It is,once again,an absolute priviledge to be able to communicate in this manner,on THIS matters. Thank you... I think,Randy,that you're getting real close in your work to that mystical koan postulated by Yellin(forgive me for bringing this up yet again on here).About the "untangible Quality" in ironwork,something that is not connected to the complexity,or size,or the elaborateness,something that a good craftsman either imparts to the work,making it real,like the Boy in the Velveteen Rabbit,or not. And if so endowed,the work can be of any,even most insignificant size and complexity,it just has It,that intangible Quality,that gratifies the person who made it if not completely,then at least in part,by obviously reflecting It. As an undercurrent throughout this thread it has also been my contention that a layman,entirely uninformed in the fine particulars involved in judgement of "good" ironwork,that regular,unsophisticated person can also recognise that Quality. And THAT is what makes work appealing to the public.That genetic similarity,in a sense,among all humans. There's about endless number of radii that can be drawn from that one point,like the stuff that is sold in the box-stores being a facsimile,getting whatever appeal that it does have by plagiarising elements of the truly inspired work.The consumer,busy and preoccupied with Life,not being a blacksmith or an arts professional,simply not taking the time to process that innate reaction that i maintain they genetically posess. Also,the religious angle(though good God knows why i meddle in all that,it's so remote from my entire life),the craftsman,by insisting on seeking that Intangible Quality,simply means to give just dues to the Creator,something less is simply Disrespectful. And Disrespect,on the side of the Creator,is not observable in universe-if we look around us,simply everything is made with that very quality and attention,(probably why the creative person looks to nature so often,the Creation is a handy reminder of a standard of quality). But all these semantics are only to yet again underline the fact that one must strive in metalwork for a certain threshhold.Less does not serve.Life is,indeed,too short to drink cheap beer,as a silly old bumper-sticker common in Alaska used to say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Beth,as usual,can bring this thread back into focus.Thanks,Beth!I second all that,instead of the spacey way that my own pea-brain clicks! :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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