FieryFurnace Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Just finished this hook a few minutes ago. It is 1/2" square bar. The hole in the back is for a chain which my client did not want included with the hook. He's going to be using it with an outside fire irons set. (The type that has two metal poles in the ground and one rod across the top. BTW this is a third-time return client, that doesn't ask how much it's going to be, just says make it! Now that's what I'm talking about! LOL If he'd just order a firescreen or something! LOL) Total length from inside of hook to inside of hook is 12 1/2 inches! And if you forgot to grab your glasses, no the twist isn't even. I should have done it in one heat, but I did it in two, and then had to do a third to blend it! I'll know better next time! I recently took my treadle hammer off of the 4 inch cap blocks I had it sitting on, and placed it directly on the gravel floor. To my great surprise, it increased the firmness of the blows and the overall efficiency of the hammer by a large amount! Just thought it was odd! Ok one last thing! I used the treadle hammer for the tapers and also used it to pinch out the material for the hole. The hole is punched and drifted to 3/8". How long would this piece have taken you and what would you have charged? I know I ask this a lot, but I am trying to determine what is good timing and pricing! Thanks!!! Thoughts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Nice job Dave, I actually like that the twist has a tapered look to it. When i put twists in steak turners and bbq forks I usually put two different twists spaced apart. Gives it a less factory look to me. But what do I know. Nice job. You do nice work. Thats why you have him as a repeat customer. Mark<>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Your "uneven" twists are due to the different heats, not even. BUT, it is nice just the same. Good to have repeat customers too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Dave, I'm with Mark, on the twist. I like it. Good job. My pricing for that would not be fair to you. I just don't charge much and really use this hobby to pass time and get to meet new folks. Mark, do you do your two twists in opposite directions? I do and they look pretty good.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Nicely done. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Yes I thought about the opposite twists as well! However, the customer sent me a photo of what he was wanting and it was a solid, same direction twist. He probably would not have minded if I did the opposite twists, but when I'm dealing with a shipped item, I'd hate to have to reship and all that! (Once again I don't think he'd do that, but....) I think where I messed up with the twist is the double heat. When I finished, the middle was where the uneven part was. I tried to get a heat in the middle with it fading towards the parts already twisted, hoping that it would blend. It's not bad and is not splotchy.....it just gets tighter towards one side. Otherwise, I would have redone it! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlreif Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 It looks fine to me. I am sure you know this but when you are doing long twists use water to cool specific areas to isolate the part you need to adjust. You are doing very nice work! I enjoy your posts. Btw. I am parcial to the reverse twists. I have a tool that I made to do it in one heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Hi Dave, Nice job as usual, the twist gives the handmade character to it. You ask about times and costs, Times would be comparable, costs are not as they depend on so many variables. SOme near to you may be able to give you what they consider would be a reasonable price, As for the time, as this is a one off, I personally would be thinking along the lines of 30 to 40 minutes (Hand hammer only, sometimes things can take longer on a treadle hammer, sometimes less, only you can tell if you run a comparison) start to completion, and including a finish, and then packaging. Questions then arise, Do you include cooling time after the finish? or do you put it to one side and get on with another paying job Was the forge up to heat before you started or did you have to light it? Carriage charges, including packaging costed in, (looks better if shown as seperate item) Keep your records, (picture/sketch and work cards help, pictures also can be used as part of a catalogue/portfolio to show clients, and cost little to produce with digital technology) and refer to them, speed will come with experience, keep the quality first, accurate costings are always difficult, even for the experienced, but you are on the right road to getting there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Mark, do you do your two twists in opposite directions? I do and they look pretty good. George, Yes, no, dang I didn't pay attention again. I have to admit that there are times when after I do the second twist, I realize they are opposite. But you know, that's what makes them unique and I like the look. Some have a twist that runs the entire length and others have separate twists separated by a few inches. Must be my A.D.D. . Mark<>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 well i figure 15-20 minutes and about 20-30 bucks... but thats me and it would depend on a few varyables like nice coustomer or picky, how poor am i at the time ect... also the tapers ide use my power hammer to make so that would speed up the prosess ...as far as the twist i think its nicer with a little unevenness i dont like things too perfect as it dosnet look hand made then..thats my opinion have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 start out with a buck a minute plus material , include paint, coal,...adjust up as necessary . The treadle hammer probably slowed you down. never make one of anything, as long as you can afford it ,...its practice, memory of what you did, one always comes out better than the other. don't put the hole in it and you can use it as a extension hook for anything that needs to be lower from the ceiling,..plants, wine racks, gongs, left handed wind shifters. Also charge your time on how long it takes to make one by hand, at a relaxed pace, then when you make ten or a hundred at a time, and get faster, or better methods you are making more money just by the time you save, if you take ten minutes to make the first one, ten bucks, plus coal, metal and finish. then put five in the fire, they may take twenty minutes but you still charge the per piece charge, you get fifty bucks for twenty minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieltheFarrier Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 1 million dollars :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason @ MacTalis Ironworks Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Looks like about 20-30 minutes of work and $20-$30 price tag by my standards. But, that is just a guess. Nice work, and here is a thought for you. Perfectly even twists aren't an asset, they are a liability. Machines make perfect twists, blacksmiths don't. It is more important that it be asthetically pleasing to the eye than be perfectly even. Every last one of my twists are a bit uneven not because I can't get them even if I take the time with it, but because it is those imperfections, like hammermarks, that tell that it is a hand forged piece. If you want perfect, buy from China, their machines do it the same everytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The whole hook has a nice clean design to it. The wide twist at the large end transitions to a tighter twist on the smaller end, it fits the look. If it was the other way around it may look a little funky, but as it is, it is very nice. I also noticed the clean hooks, devoid of large hammer marks, well done. Part time hobbyist, so I cannot comment on time, or price. The fact that he is a repeat customer says something. You could start bumping your price up until he balks a little,when he does you have reached the edge of his pain level for pricing. Everyone's level is different. Once you know his level you can price to it. You have the quality in your work, so that is not a factor. If this is an item that is available from other sources you can research what others are selling for, and adjust from there. Unique handmade items are sought out by folks who want quality. Again, very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 I've got an hour of time. $20 I did have to stop in the middle and help dad get the chainsaw out of a tree that started to fall the wrong way. I think starting a project and having to diverge in the middle of it, or stop completely and then restart later, is a killer for time. You've got to get warmed up all over again! The treadle hammmer may very well have slowed me down. I've never done a time comparison with different stuff, for the treadle verses the hand hammer. I'm inclined to think that I can move metal more swiftly with my hand hammer in certain applications! Try number two, I'd venture to say I could do better on time. That was only the second time I've ever had to pinch metal out like that for the hole. I've got another hook to make for the guy, so I may try running out two of them! I do like that idea. The next is anther 12 inch hook from 1/2" square, but there are two more hooks welded in the middle for adjustment, spaced three inches apart. It's going to be interesting! I'm going to have to make a parent hook, shorter than 12 inches because when I weld the other two in there, I will be adding material and therefore length. How much to allow for that? I haven't got a clue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 take a two foot piece, fold it to where the hooks are to be fold again to forge weld ( welding on the end is easier for a beginner ) cut the two loops you created and you will have a twelve inch bar with two "arms",.... cut,... shape hooks,.. twist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The next is anther 12 inch hook from 1/2" square, but there are two more hooks welded in the middle for adjustment, spaced three inches apart. It's going to be interesting! I'm going to have to make a parent hook, shorter than 12 inches because when I weld the other two in there, I will be adding material and therefore length. How much to allow for that? I haven't got a clue! I would suggest making a simple trammel type hanger to your client, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 smithy1: Good idea...don't know why I didn't think of that already! I'll have to sketch the steps out on my table to make sure I understand them all....I know what you are talking about, just never done it. John B: That would be my pick but not the pick of the client! He sent me a paper with a bunch of hook pictures on it, but circled the two he wants. One of the ones he did not circle is the regular trammel. He likes Appalachian reproduction pieces that you don't see every day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Since you know you are going to sell the regular trammel come fair season, just build some. He can decide if he likes it or not when he comes for the stuff he ordered. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Since you know you are going to sell the regular trammel come fair season, just build some. He can decide if he likes it or not when he comes for the stuff he ordered. Phil Not a bad idea in the least! I'm shipping the items, but I could manage to work a picture of an "unresistingly interesting authentic appalachian" trammel hook in a short "personaly bonding, artisan-to-client friendship note." (I told y'all I was working on my "professional voice!" hehe!) Now here is the overly embarrasing part.....this is about as bad as smithing for five years and not having known that I needed the vice post to go all the way to the ground or be otherwise firmly supported. Ok here we go! My name is Dave Custer and I have never made a trammel hook! Wew! LOL Oh no, I'm dead serious! Never! I think I could probably manage, but as of 1-23-2011 the Fiery Furnace Forge Blacksmith Company (yes I'll blame it on the company ) has never produced a single trammel hook! Never tried! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Opportunity Knocks, some have never made a trammel hook in years of smithing, so don't worry, you can't do it all in 5, 10, 15 ---- 50 + years, you are always learning, the more you work and learn, the less you know Like I say to the young uns Do it know when you know it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Evening up twists often require water to localize a heat to just the area you need to tighten a bit. I find it a lot easier to go back and tighten up a twist than to try to "loosen" it. But like the others I like your hook just the way it is! I find that gas forges are great for getting even twists as you can get the entire piece up to the same temp easier than with a coal forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Knock those edges off of that square stock before you twist and it will have more of a "worked" look and be more pleasant to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 When I need a really even heat it sometimes helps in the gas forge if I get the steel good and hot then turn the forge off leave the door shut for a minute or so and the heat will even out. In a coal forge cover it with coal and turn the blast off let it set a little bit before you take it out. I think it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 I have noticed allowing stock to sit in the fire a sec helps eaven things out but I had not put that together with twisting....good point! Thanks! Yes the gas forge! Yes, the gas forge that I don't have! LOL I'd like to make one, but I think I've already started to outgrow my 20'x27' shop! (Joking...sort of!) I am familiar with breaking the edges of square stock. I learned that in Mr Clay Spencer's traditional joinery class at JCC Folk School. A Little Giant with good taper dies makes that job a bit easier. You can run those things at their top speed for that and not worry about disfiguring your stock.....just don't get carried away and forget to stop before your arm goes in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.