ciladog Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Dave, this isn’t rocket science. There are only three things that could be causing your problem. It’s either the cylinder, pilot valve(s), or spool valve. If the cylinder was bad, your striking pattern would be consistent because any bypass would be happen each time one side or the other of the ram was pressurized. Blows would be weak but consistent. So I don’t think it’s the cylinder. It could be a bad pilot valve that is either leaking air past the seal or not transitioning completely from pressure to exhaust and back again. It’s easily enough to check this. Remove the line from the pilot valve to the spool valve at the spool and leave the pressure supply to the valve connected. Now with the valve in its normal position (not pressed in by the hammer) there should be no air coming out of the valve. If you blow air through line that was connected to the spool it should exit the pilot’s exhaust port. Now press in the roller of the pilot valve and you should get air pressure coming out of the line that was connected to the spool. If that’s what you get, the pilot is OK. Just make sure that when the hammer depresses the roller the valve is depressed enough to transition completely from exhaust to pressure. There are a few things that can go bad in the spool valve. The spool can be sticking and not sliding back and forth completely as it should. Or the O-rings on the spool can be worn or cracked or the spring is broken or there may be something foreign blocking one of the internal ports. Most spool valves can be disassembled. There are only two parts in a spring type spool, the spring and the spool. Take it apart and check it. If the o-rings are bad or if the spring is broken get a rebuild kit from the manufacturer and rebuild it. Those kits contain the spring and the o-rings and are not expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Hi Dave, I'd definitely start with the block heater. On cold days and 40* is cool enough my hammer can run like I'm pumping molasses through the lines instead of air. It needs to warm up, even if it isn't freezing the oil viscosity in the lines can get thick enough to slow down the action of the valves. I'd also check the ram slide for lubrication,excessive tightness or if you used grease to lubricate it it could also a little thick in the cool and slowing things down. After all these checks if you still have issues, then I'd follow ciladogs suggestions. Almost forgot: Remember compressed air cools as it expands so the ambient temp can be above freezing and you will still produce ice vapor within your air lines on a moderate temp day.A temperature of 40* with high humidity can turn your air lines into mini refrigeration units. Hope this helps Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Dave, how about an update on the hammer? Did you find the problem yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 Sorry guys.....been in the shop a lot and haven't been doing much with the hammer! I did run oil through all of the lines, opened up the valves and got oil in them, and greased the fool out the slide and cylinder arm. The grease seemed to help as did the engine block warmer on the valve. It started hammering evenly and delivering a full stroke. That made me breath a sigh of relief! I ran the hammer for quite some time, with a piece of wood under the dies to get the oil and grease evenly spread around. Then, out of the clear blue, it started doing a really short cycle. Nothing changed in the roller valve position or anything, but the hammer just started cycling in about a 2 inch stroke. This was taking place in the very top part of the stroke path, so it seemed to me that there wasn't enough air reaching the upper part of the cylinder, to drive the hammer down. I went over all of the lines again, undoing them and checking air flow, and finally got it doing a full stroke again, and doing so evenly. Since the hammer was working I was planning on doing the crucifiction spikes under it as practice. I let off the foot pedal and noticed a tiny leak at the bottom of the valve. I grabbed the star-bit screw driver next to the hammer, and tightened the screw a bit......and SNAP! The screw broke off flush with the valve body! After a couple of fruitless efforts to retract the broken screw, I was forced to call Norgren. (Air valve people!) Well, it was Saturday and Norgren wasn't open, so I had to wait until Monday to order the new part. I ordered it last Monday and have yet to receive it. It was an in-stock part, so I expect it back any day. Just a little BTW: the Norgren people are great! Very friendly and a lot of fun to deal with! The part was $50.00 plus shipping. I should have left the hammer along that week anyway. I did more stupid things that week than any other week in my life. Including, cutting the miter saw chord in half, and setting the miter saw down on the end of a piece of wood that was hanging off the saw horses. (I.E. making a miniature catapult!) Anyway, are you sure you wanted an update! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hey Dave, Sorry to hear about the problems encountered. Sometimes we can be our own worst enemy! Say, I checked out your blog to see if you had any photos of the damages valve bit and saw your wheel barrel project. A few years ago I replaced the handles for a 20 some year old fiberglass, heavy duty wheel barrel. They didn't sell the handles by them selves(although they were seperate in the store) so I made my own like you guys did. What I am getting at is that I used my drawknife to form the handles from rectangular wood to a smooth surface. To make it really smooth I used the drawknife as a scraper, didn't need to use any sandpaper. In total it took me around 5 minutes for each handle, if it even took me that long. For making organic forms like handles it is very diffucult to beat a drawknife, when you get some time you may want to try your hand at making one. Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hey Dave, Sorry to hear about the problems encountered. Sometimes we can be our own worst enemy! Say, I checked out your blog to see if you had any photos of the damages valve bit and saw your wheel barrel project. A few years ago I replaced the handles for a 20 some year old fiberglass, heavy duty wheel barrel. They didn't sell the handles by them selves(although they were seperate in the store) so I made my own like you guys did. What I am getting at is that I used my drawknife to form the handles from rectangular wood to a smooth surface. To make it really smooth I used the drawknife as a scraper, didn't need to use any sandpaper. In total it took me around 5 minutes for each handle, if it even took me that long. For making organic forms like handles it is very diffucult to beat a drawknife, when you get some time you may want to try your hand at making one. Caleb Ramsby Yep, been wanting to make one for a really long time now! I'll need it when I start building my boat, and it would have come in super handy on the handles. I've got lots of thin lawn mower blades and so it would be pretty easy to make one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 When I was the metallurgical consultant on a small viking ship project I noticed that they were trying to make the tapers for lapping the strakes with a belt sander. next visit I showed them that a draw knife was *faster* and much more pleasant to use as no sawdust and no noise and was an appropriate tool to do that job with historically too! (They were having trouble annealing the nails they were using for rivets---historical *style* ones from the Tremont nail company but made from modern materials; so a mutual friend brought me in and I was able to anneal the rest of the nails for them by heating them en-mass so that there was enough heat to allow them to cool slowly enough to anneal rather than normalize. I got to help on the boat some too; but moved 1500 miles away before it was finished and in the water---drat!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Guy I used to know who studied in Norway made all of his scarfs with a little Norwegian side hatchet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 A viking ship project! THAT sounds NEAT! I'm a big wooden SAILBOAT fan. I've got a fiberglass racer that I want to sell and and use the money to build a 15 foot, traditional gaff rigger. I can get rough sawn white-oak for frames and red-cedar for planking for 50 cents a board foot, and we have a planer. Well this thread has covered a lot of topics. Car wrecks, air compressors, air compressor repair, power hammers, and now wooden boats. Anyone want to talk about trebuches? LOL I'm still waiting on the valve from Norgren. It's been two weeks today since I ordered. I finally called them last Thursday and politely asked where in the world my valve was. They said it had shipped out the day before. (A week and a half after I ordered!) Oh well! GREAT customer service, Christmas slow shipping! hahaha! I suppose it'll be here today or tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 lot of topics. Car wrecks, air compressors, air compressor repair, power hammers, and now wooden boats. Anyone want to talk about trebuches? LOL My brother in law built one for throwing shell peanuts out of mostly 1/4 inch wood, I think balsa. He scaled a tennis ball thrower plans down from online somewhere. I don't have pictures. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 We've got some blue-limestone chunks that weigh several hundred pounds....not thinking about launching them, but one would make a great counterweight! Maybe it'd launch a 25 pound projectile. We've got 200 yards of pasture with a rock bluff for a backdrop! SWEET! I got the valve today and hooked it up! Something is wrong though as the hammer won't move at all. I'm 99% sure that everything is hooked up right, but I'm going to check again tomorrow and figure it out! It's got to be a hook up problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Patton Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 We've got some blue-limestone chunks that weigh several hundred pounds....not thinking about launching them, but one would make a great counterweight! Maybe it'd launch a 25 pound projectile. We've got 200 yards of pasture with a rock bluff for a backdrop! SWEET! I got the valve today and hooked it up! Something is wrong though as the hammer won't move at all. I'm 99% sure that everything is hooked up right, but I'm going to check again tomorrow and figure it out! It's got to be a hook up problem. Yeah, if you have the lines to the cylinder switched, it won't budge. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Yeah, if you have the lines to the cylinder switched, it won't budge. I don't think that's it, but I'm going to double check tomorrow on that one! I was a little flustered today and just had time to get the valve on. BTW you have a GREAT website and you do AMAZING work! How about a mandolin with damascus hardware, and a matching damascus rapier, dagger, and buckler! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Well...I'm blonde! Mr. Philip had the valve on there so that the control line that goes to the roller valve, faces DOWN. In that configuration, the top line off the air cylinder went to the bottom side of the valve, and the bottom line off the cylinder went to the top side of the valve. I memorized the configuration of the lines going to and from the cylinder. (Top to bottom, bottom to top....that was easy to remember.) However, when I put the new valve on, I put the control line that goes to the roller valve facing UP. Blonde over here, did not switch the air cylinder lines to account for that! So, I switched those around and the hammer is running very smooth. I only have one problem left now. I have adjusted the roller valve so that when run "dry" the hammer dies smack each other firmly but not excessivly. However, as the air pressure in the compressor decreases, so does the hammer blow, until it is not hitting at all. I still do not have the CFM on my compressor. The compressor tank was built in 1989 and from what I've seen/read, older units do not have the CFM marked. However, before purchasing this compressor I did look at similar sizes of compressors and they all pump 17+ CFM. The compressors I looked at had 5+ HP motors, ran around 200 max PSI, and had 80+ gallon tanks. My compressor is a 7.5 HP, the tank is rated for 200 max PSI and is an 80 gallon tank. Based off of these comparisons, I think my compressor should be pumping 17 CFM without a problem. The compressor has a switch regulator that turns the compressor on and off at a certain PSI level. This regulator has a sticker on it marked "ON 95 PSI, OFF 125 PSI." When the compressor turns off at 125 PSI, anything put under the hammer head is going to get smashed! And I do mean smashed....MAN that thing hits HARD! However, as it gets down to 105 PSI or so, it stops hitting and the dies just cycle in mid air. IS THIS A CFM PROBLEM? If it is, I've got a compressor and air hammer for sale! LOL Is this a PSI problem? If it is, should that regulator be adjustable or do I have to buy one that is set higher? (I have no paperwork on this stuff! It is what came on the compressor and survived the 40 MPH sling shot off the trailer! ) Mr. Philip, what is the PSI on you compressor? Turn on and shut off pressures? Others of you who may be using Kinyons, what are your compressors set on. Also, if two compressors are sitting side by side and are exactly identicle....for instance 5 HP motors, 200 max PSI...but the CFM of one is unknown, and the other is known to be 17 CFM, can you assume that the CFM on the unknown unit is the same as the known? Or, can you have two compressors that pump the same PSI but a different CFM? Finally, if this is a problem that has to do with my compressor, bottom line is, for now I have to live with it. In that case, can I tune the roller valve down so that the hammer dies still hit when the lower PSI is coming through the lines? Or, will tis kill the hammer when it is running at the higher PSI? Please pardon, but I am clueless when it comes to pnumatics! ......like you didn't already know that! Thank you all for your kind help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Patton Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 BTW you have a GREAT website and you do AMAZING work! How about a mandolin with damascus hardware, and a matching damascus rapier, dagger, and buckler! Well, thank you for saying so! You're not doing too bad yourself, and I enjoy your families website and blogs. Most of the stuff on my website was forged under your hammer. As you said, it hits HARD. I've used it to forge down 2" round CPM M4, which is a very high alloy tool steel. Did you check out the WIP thread I did recently in the knifemaking subforum? You might find it interesting. Well...I'm blonde! Mr. Philip had the valve on there so that the control line that goes to the roller valve, faces DOWN. In that configuration, the top line off the air cylinder went to the bottom side of the valve, and the bottom line off the cylinder went to the top side of the valve. I memorized the configuration of the lines going to and from the cylinder. (Top to bottom, bottom to top....that was easy to remember.) However, when I put the new valve on, I put the control line that goes to the roller valve facing UP. Blonde over here, did not switch the air cylinder lines to account for that! So, I switched those around and the hammer is running very smooth. Glad to hear it!I only have one problem left now. I have adjusted the roller valve so that when run "dry" the hammer dies smack each other firmly but not excessivly. However, as the air pressure in the compressor decreases, so does the hammer blow, until it is not hitting at all. I still do not have the CFM on my compressor. The compressor tank was built in 1989 and from what I've seen/read, older units do not have the CFM marked. However, before purchasing this compressor I did look at similar sizes of compressors and they all pump 17+ CFM. You have another, smaller compressor, right? Have you tried hooking it up at the same time as the bigger one? If you do this, and the hammer doesn't bog down, then you'll know it's a CFM problem. How warm is it there? You might still want to use the heater on the main valve until the weather really warms up. The compressors I looked at had 5+ HP motors, ran around 200 max PSI, and had 80+ gallon tanks. My compressor is a 7.5 HP, the tank is rated for 200 max PSI and is an 80 gallon tank. Based off of these comparisons, I think my compressor should be pumping 17 CFM without a problem. I would think yours would be big enough. My compressor is only 5 HP, and puts out around 20 CFM. But mine is two stage, and has 4 cylinders, so I'm not sure how to compare the two. The compressor has a switch regulator that turns the compressor on and off at a certain PSI level. This regulator has a sticker on it marked "ON 95 PSI, OFF 125 PSI." When the compressor turns off at 125 PSI, anything put under the hammer head is going to get smashed! And I do mean smashed....MAN that thing hits HARD! However, as it gets down to 105 PSI or so, it stops hitting and the dies just cycle in mid air. My compressor comes on about 95 to 100, and shuts off around 120-125. Maybe it would work to raise the lower number up to where the hammer starts to bog down? Hopefully someone with more compressor expertise will chime in here. IS THIS A CFM PROBLEM? If it is, I've got a compressor and air hammer for sale! LOL Is this a PSI problem? If it is, should that regulator be adjustable or do I have to buy one that is set higher? (I have no paperwork on this stuff! It is what came on the compressor and survived the 40 MPH sling shot off the trailer! ) Try doubling up your compressor before you sell it. I really hope it doesn't come to that, but you shouldn't have a problem selling. You got it all fixed up and painted. LOL Also, if two compressors are sitting side by side and are exactly identicle....for instance 5 HP motors, 200 max PSI...but the CFM of one is unknown, and the other is known to be 17 CFM, can you assume that the CFM on the unknown unit is the same as the known? Or, can you have two compressors that pump the same PSI but a different CFM? If you do hook the two compressors together, you should probably have check a valve on the lower pressure one, or just set the max pressure to be the same.Finally, if this is a problem that has to do with my compressor, bottom line is, for now I have to live with it. In that case, can I tune the roller valve down so that the hammer dies still hit when the lower PSI is coming through the lines? Or, will tis kill the hammer when it is running at the higher PSI? Go ahead and try it. I moved the valve around all the time to suit different requirements. Please pardon, but I am clueless when it comes to pnumatics! ......like you didn't already know that! Thank you all for your kind help! I'm no expert either, so I hope I hope someone who knows more will speak up and confirm or refute what I've said. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I found a tank pressure adjustment today. That bumped the cut on PSI to around 100, and the cut off at around 140. That COMPLETELY fixed the problem. The hammer is hitting evenly, consistantly, and is MOVING some metal. I'm doing a whole bunch of S-hooks for craft fairs right now, so I haven't been able to use it too much. However, I bought some 1" round bar to stake around my hammer to keep it from walking. (Just in the little test runs I have done so far it had walked nearly four inches.....quite surprising to me because the unit weighs something like 1200-1500 pounds now.) I cut the 1 inch stock into two foot section and got the ends hot. I tapered them in a single heat a piece and even managed to round them a bit, with plenty of heat to spare. That is soooooo SWEET! I've got a video that I'm going to upload to you-tube and post probably tomorrow! Thanks for all the help....I'm hoping the work part is done and the usefullness part has come into play. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkunkler Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm 99% sure that everything is hooked up right, but I'm going to check again tomorrow and figure it out! It's got to be a hook up problem. It's that other 1% that bites you on the hiney. I'm glad to hear you've got it back up and running smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 It's that other 1% that bites you on the hiney. I'm glad to hear you've got it back up and running smooth. Aint that the truth! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Patton Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Glad to hear you got it going! Now, where's the video? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Sorry about the video.....I took the video with the camera side-ways. Well, when I put it on the computer I couldn't figure out how to turn it the other way. I've still got some of that one-inch stuff though, so I'll take another video ASAP! Maybe today! I don't know though. We've got to unload 25 sheets of OSB and 2500 pounds of concrete in a bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Hi Dave I haven't been around for awhile, but I just saw this. You should have a regulator between your compressor and your hammer normally just before your oiler. If you adjust the pressure to less than your compressor kick on presure you should get consistant blows rather than having hard blows when your compressor is fully charged and weaker ones just before it recharges. When this is adjusted that way then your roller can be adjusted to the right hight as it should be consistant unless you are drawing and exceed the capabillity of your compressor. Maybe this will help some. I am glad to hear that you are using your machine some, if it were here and I were making S hooks from anything from 3/16 on up I would use the air hammer. You can make a wedge and draw a consistant taper on that small stock. That wedge can be held in place like I showed you with the tool holding dies or you can just trap it in a box and hold it under the flat side of your combination dies. Flat dies are much more versitile than comb dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 I had wondered about putting another regulator in. Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry about no video yet.....I've been busy with other stuff and just haven't got to it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.