pkrankow Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I like air drills and sanders. They are not for everything though. If your service air in in good condition then you should have similar energy usage between pneumatic and electric. If you have leaky fittings in your supply, and your system is running to recharge just to compensate for this you can waste a lot of electricity in short order. In my opinion, if your compressor runs after sitting for less than an hour with no air use, it is time to inspect and repair your lines. This is from an energy perspective, not safety. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thank you for your advice in tools! After this expense, it will be a while before I start buying power tools! LOL I've still got an enclosed trailer to buy or build. The left overs from last year's craft fair circuit are running short! I'll have time for that later on maybe! I'm going to be really tight this year anyway, as I would like to repay the money used in the shop and tools, add to that savings considerably, and if there is something left over at the end, maybe pick up some deals at Quad State. Big if! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi Dave after reading through this I am wondering if your die alighnment could be corrected by rotating the top die 180 degrees like John said? If you deside that you want to have your dies at an angle reather than square to the machine I would think about making a base that you can make dies for that bolts on to the present mounting system that way when you are finished with your work you end up with more options not just different ones, if I don't forget and I can remember how to post pictures I will take some tomorrow so you can see what I mean. This system really only helps if you are doing fairly large runs of the same item rather than one offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Hello Dave after looking back through part of this post I see that you have combination dies on the hammer so you certainly did not get one turned around. Sorry I just was not paying close enough attention. Anyhow here are the pictures of basically a booster seat for putting very short dies on the advantage is that they are much less expensive to make and you can weld them to a different angle if that ends up being what you deside to do in the future, you can make the booster from mild steel. make it as large as is practical so that you can make your mounting holes more spaced out. I will also attatch a picture of a few die ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 I think I understand! Basically it's just a spacer right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Right the advantage being that instead of buying a chunck of toolsteel 2-3 inches thick for $$$$ you can now use a much thinner chunck which you likely can find lieing around disguised as a truck axle, or what ever. Shoot if you had crossed the road at a worse time you might have some extra ones now. Though I must say I am glad you don't have those particular ones available. Become a friend of the heavy equipment repair guy or the farm implement guy and you should be set. Some junk steel really needs no modifications only weld it on and go, and of course the reason I brought it up to begin with you can weld it on to your base at whatever angle you like, I just would prefer to add to my tools rather than sacrifice one to get another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 After a long wait, dad and I managed to get the compressor off the trailer and into its home! It took about an hour of inching, and pushing, and sliding, and pulling, and jacking! However, we managed! Once when we let it down off the jack the pressure gauge hit a piece of wood, and the pipe that comes out of the compressor and goes to the outlet pressure regulator got broken.....again! Oops! Quick run to the store to get another pipe! Something I didn't notice and apparently the repair man missed too was that one of the fittings on the outlet pressure gauge is cross threaded. This resulted in a small leak right around the compressor hose fitting. (The repair guy is an older fellow and is a little hard-of-hearing, so he didn't hear the quiet leak!) So anyway, I'm also going to try to pick up a new regulator! Don't tell anyone but I'm using an Ingersol-Rand muffler on a Dresser compressor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 The compressor is wired and running. The air pipe is plumbed from the compressor into the shop and more importantly, directly to the hammer. The hammer is up and running good. I think it may need some tweaking. The compressor needs a couple of new fittings as it is leaking around where the compressor head pushes the air into the tank. Ok for the hammer. It is hitting good and hard, but it seems to stutter....meaning that it will hit harder every couple of blows. It's not a distinct pattern, just an irregularity in the hammer pattern. Any thoughts on what adjustments need to be made for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Patton Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The compressor is wired and running. The air pipe is plumbed from the compressor into the shop and more importantly, directly to the hammer. The hammer is up and running good. I think it may need some tweaking. The compressor needs a couple of new fittings as it is leaking around where the compressor head pushes the air into the tank. Ok for the hammer. It is hitting good and hard, but it seems to stutter....meaning that it will hit harder every couple of blows. It's not a distinct pattern, just an irregularity in the hammer pattern. Any thoughts on what adjustments need to be made for this? A video of the stuttering would be nice. All I can think of right now is make sure the guides aren't too tight, and make sure there's no water in the lines. I don't remember it doing that, but it may be I just got used to it. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Ok for the hammer. It is hitting good and hard, but it seems to stutter....meaning that it will hit harder every couple of blows. It's not a distinct pattern, just an irregularity in the hammer pattern. Any thoughts on what adjustments need to be made for this? Do you have an oiler piped into the supply line? If the hammer hadn't run for a while you may have some sticky valves or cylinder. If you don't have an oiler just squirt some oil into the air line for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The compressor needs a couple of new fittings as it is leaking around where the compressor head pushes the air into the tank. The fitting you describe is probable the unloader. The function of this is to release the pressure in the compressor head when it stops running so that when it turns back on, there is no presser in the head and the motor starts up without a load on it. If it is leaking when the compressor stops it’s normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 Yes that is the part on the compressor I was referring to. I know it is supposed to spill off the air but it leaks the entire time the compressor is being pumped up and it is leaking around the threads. Doesn't seem like it should be leaking there! ??? I do hav an oiler but I need to check to make sure it has oil in it. What type of oil would I need for something like that? Sorry, but the biggest air powered tool I've ever used is a nailgun, and that is on a little 3.5 hp porta-compressor. I should probably pull out the Kinyon plans....I suppose it will have some general maintanance instructions in it. I know the guids aren't too tight. I took the head out and cleaned the guides with mineral spirits and then regreased and put the head back in. It operates very smoothly and is clean. I don't see why there would be water in the lines but maybe I'll unhook everything and flush it out with a good blast of air. One things for sure, as a 60 pounder it hits hard and pretty fast. The compressor seems able to handle the job quite well, though I do not know how often it will turn on under constant use. There is a small leak right around the air supply fitting to the shop. I checked it last night and it looks like it is leaking maybe 10 pounds an hour......I think I'll probably leave that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The compressor is wired and running. The air pipe is plumbed from the compressor into the shop and more importantly, directly to the hammer. The hammer is up and running good. I think it may need some tweaking. The compressor needs a couple of new fittings as it is leaking around where the compressor head pushes the air into the tank. Ok for the hammer. It is hitting good and hard, but it seems to stutter....meaning that it will hit harder every couple of blows. It's not a distinct pattern, just an irregularity in the hammer pattern. Any thoughts on what adjustments need to be made for this? One thing you might check and I can't tell from your pictures. I have seen in some Kinyon hammers. You need to keep your air line as short as possible and as big in dia. as your ports. If you restrict your line size or lenght of line the air has a harder and longer way to go in the circut. On my Kinyon style it has 1/2 " ports and lines. Alot of regulators and oilers have 3/8" ports. I have found ones with 1/2". If you think about it if you are using 3/8" port, right from the beginning you have restricted your air volume. Mine will hit about 200 times a min.wide open at 125 psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Yes that is the part on the compressor I was referring to. I know it is supposed to spill off the air but it leaks the entire time the compressor is being pumped up and it is leaking around the threads. Doesn't seem like it should be leaking there! ??? I do hav an oiler but I need to check to make sure it has oil in it. What type of oil would I need for something like that? So if the unloader is always leaking there may be some dirt like rust from the spill the compressor took stuck in it. You can take it off the compressor and disassemble it and clean it. If you can't then you'll have to replace it. I use oil made for pneumatic tools. Lots of automotive stores sell it. But I guess you could use any light weight (very thin like 3&1) non detergent oil. I know some guys use Marvels Mistery Oil. I would not take 10 psi per hr as a small leak. That is a lot of air considering the volume of your tank and the pressure its under. Remember, electricity to run that compressor motor adds up at the end of the month. If you don't have one, you could install a shut-off valve at the compressor. Anything that leaks after that valve won't matter except when you're running the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Some of the things we used to do when supplying machines that used large amounts of air. Hard pipe to as close to the machine as possible with as large ID pipe for the trunk line as practical.If you have to use small ID pipe over a long run from the trunk line to the machine then consider installing an accumulator tank next to the machine. Make the final bend from the branch line to the machine/accumulator a T instead of an L and extend the lower leg of the T down 12-18" and install a ball valve on the end.The drop leg will catch water and the ball valve will allow you to quickly dump that water. We installed a water separator/filter and oiler at each machine.Water separator/filter first then regulator and pneumatic oiler.We prefered to use the type with clear bowls so the operator could easily see when the trap needed to be drained and the oiler filled.The oiler also had a clear bubble on top next to the adjuster so you could see/time the rate and adjust to suit. Any hoses were kept as short as possible,as large ID as possible and were of a reinforced type as well as having a spring over them to guard the hose against cutting and abrasion.Anchors ran from the spring to the body of the machine to restrain the hose`s movement in case of blowout. A shut off valve(usually a ball valve) was installed within easy reach of the operator to shut off and isolate the machine in case anything went wrong.If you`re using an accumulator tank the valve should be between the tank and the machine in order to shut off air from the accumulator. Exhaust air coming from the machine should be plumbed into something like a barrel/trap filled with chips or other media that will separate the oil from the air and then the air from the barrel/trap exhausted outside the shop.Don`t just dump that oily air into the shop where it can be inhaled. Use a good quality pipe dope on all threaded pipe connections. Hope this is of some help to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 We ran 1 inch SCH 40 PVC to the compressor. It is about a 60' run! The hose from the pipe to the hammer is 3/8" and I think all of the hammer arbours are 3/8" as well. The hammer seems to run fine and fast with that supply, but I don't have anything to compare it by. I just put an elbow down to the hammer, but what you say makes perfect sense and since I have some extra pipe and an extra T-piece, I'll add that water cache soon. The exhaust is just stuck up in the ceiling right now, but I'll be sure to change that so that it points out of the barn! Once again, thanks for being willing and taking the time to share your knowledge....it is ALWAYS GREATLY appreciated! I made some adjustments on the compressor and did a "leak test" on the tank itself. Looks like I'm loosing a little less than 30 pounds of tank pressure per 24 hours. When I get a chance, I'm going to test the supply lines and see if that increases the leakage at all. I have already pressurized the supply lines once and there where no audible leaks. Before I screwed the hose connections into my pipes I decided to blow them out. There are three, 3/4" opening into our shop. I opened the compressor a little and boy it sounded like a jet engine! Today is a smithing day so maybe I'll get a video of the first real test run on the hammer! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 If the compressor unloader is always leaking the check valve on the tank is bad, and a cheap fix. If the check valve is bad, when the uloader is open to make for easy restart the tank air leaks back through. I learned this over the summer on my own compressor. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkunkler Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 We ran 1 inch SCH 40 PVC to the compressor. It is about a 60' run! You may want to reconsider using PVC for air. Do a google search on PVC air lines and see some of the possible dangers. I just want you to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hey well, tried to use the hammer some today! I've got some issues with it that I am sure are a matter of adjustment, but I'm just not sure what the adjustment would be. It is still hitting sporadically in a random pattern. Like: bam, bam, BAM, bam bam bam, BAM, bam, BAM, BAM,....... This makes taper work impossible, because once the metal gets small, if the hammer hits heavier you ruin your piece! Ask me how I know! LOL This is not a foot pedal operator eror! While I haven't had a whole lot of power hammer time, I can control them steadily. (Saymak, big blu, little giant, and tire) Here is a video of the hammer running briefly! Notice how some hammer blows are heavier while some are lighter. I sure hope this isn't an air feed problem. My feed lines are as follows. From the tank there is about 60' of 1-inch SCH 40 PVC piping, directly to the hammer. There is a 6' section of 3/8" air-hose that connects the main supply line to the hammer. All of the air supply pipe and arbours are also 3/8". These are the connections that Mr. Philip had on the hammer, and I did not notice this problem when I ran it at his place. The compressor is cutting off at around 125 PSI and kicks back on between 90-100 PSI. The supply pipe comes directly out of the tank. Please help me out here.......need to get this thing up and running 100% ASAP! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Patton Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hey well, tried to use the hammer some today! I've got some issues with it that I am sure are a matter of adjustment, but I'm just not sure what the adjustment would be. It is still hitting sporadically in a random pattern. Like: bam, bam, BAM, bam bam bam, BAM, bam, BAM, BAM,....... This makes taper work impossible, because once the metal gets small, if the hammer hits heavier you ruin your piece! Ask me how I know! LOL This is not a foot pedal operator eror! While I haven't had a whole lot of power hammer time, I can control them steadily. (Saymak, big blu, little giant, and tire) Here is a video of the hammer running briefly! Notice how some hammer blows are heavier while some are lighter. I sure hope this isn't an air feed problem. My feed lines are as follows. From the tank there is about 60' of 1-inch SCH 40 PVC piping, directly to the hammer. There is a 6' section of 3/8" air-hose that connects the main supply line to the hammer. All of the air supply pipe and arbours are also 3/8". These are the connections that Mr. Philip had on the hammer, and I did not notice this problem when I ran it at his place. The compressor is cutting off at around 125 PSI and kicks back on between 90-100 PSI. The supply pipe comes directly out of the tank. Please help me out here.......need to get this thing up and running 100% ASAP! Thanks! First thing I'd do is put that block heater I gave you on the plate that the 5 way valve is mounted on. If the temps are below freezing, it doesn't run as smoothly as in warm weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 try moving the roller up to raise the stroke up a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hey Phillip and Dave, I don't have much experience with air hammers, but some with using gases for power. Could the reason that it doesn't like to run in cold weather be that the moisture in the air is freezing inside the cylinders transfer valves as it is throttled when they close? Dave are you sure that the cylinder is getting oil? Have you checked and seen if there is any oil inside the exhaust tube, there should be a light coat. That reminds me, the fighter planes in World War One mostly used rotary engines which were lubricated with castor oil admited with the air. The way they would check and see if the oiler was doing its job was to look down at the wing. It it was being coated in oil then you were OK. That and the acrobatics/fear of death upset their stomach so when they landed at base their favorite drink was milk with a good bit of wiskey mixed in. One to take care of the stomach the other for the fear. Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 I just put a good bit of oil in the oiler yesterday before operation. If that was the problem, I think I used it enough to work itself out. I also took the air line out of the roller for a second and oily air is coming though there. I haven't checked the exhaust yet though. Peacock, No can do, It won't strike all of the way down if I raise it up much more. I'll try the block heater next time although temps here are in the mid 40's. No one seems to think this is an air supply problem, or a part problem??? It seems to me that for some reason an uneven quantity of air is reaching the cylinder. If it an was air supply problem then it seems that the blow would decrease to a certain level and then remain steady! Mr. Philip: You mentioned air cylinders wearing out! What are the signs that the cylinder is going? I SURE hope it isn't that as I have NO MORE $$$$$$! lol (Although I do have some jobs coming in!) What about the air valve and the roller? Are those parts something that wears out? I don't know, I'm just grabbing straws! How much oil does something like this take? I'm used to our nail gun: one drop before use and your good to go. (I pu considerably more than that in the oiler but.....I just don't know!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 When sorting something like this out I usually follow a once thing at a time approach. I would start with oil.I`d get oil to all the workings of the machine first,by that I mean introducing oil at the supply line and making sure it got to all the the valves and the cylinder.It may be that one of you valves is sticking and the oil will free it up. Once the oil works it`s way thru everything I`d try making sure there is zero water in your system.Even at 40 degrees if you`re moving a lot of air any water within the system will freeze.I used to frost up air grinders on humid 90 degree days.If there is water in the line then raising the temp of the valve will help keep it from freezing up.Have your helper hold a hair dryer on one valve at a time to see if that helps. The next thing would be to look at wear on both the linkages and inside the valves.Have someone watch the valves and linkages while you work to check that the action of the linkages and the movement of the hoses between valves stays constant.We used to put pressure gauges in the lines temporarily to see if valves were sticking or worn.A worn valve can sometimes be brought back up to pressure by a squirt of oil into the line feeding it.The oil will temporarily tighten it up and let it build pressure.Once the oil works it`s way thru a worn valve will go back to malfunctioning.Start at the last valve in the system and work your way back down the line.If you start at the first you`ll get false readings as the oil works it`s way thru the system and into the next valve. If it were a supply issue the hammer would start out strong and then taper off so that doesn`t seem to be the real problem.I`d go with a larger than 1" supply line to the hammer though. While we`re on supply line issues,GET RID OF THAT PVC PIPE! Using that stuff is like BBQing dynamite while wearing gasoline shorts. It`s not a matter of "if" it`s a matter of when something is going to go BOOM and somebody`s gonna get burned or worse.When plastic fails(and it will when in contact with oil)it doesn`t just split like metal does,it goes off like a bomb and plastic shrapnel flies around.Plastic is fine for water or low pressure use it was never meant to be used for the type of pressure compressed air involves. We want to keep you around for as long as possible David,rip that PVC out and replace it with something that was designed for compressed air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Patton Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 This reminds me of when we bought our truck this past summer. When we looked at it, everything worked. The day after we got it home, it wouldn't start, it was sitting on a flat, the cruise control quit (once we got it started) and the air conditioner needed to be recharged. LOL That was a lot of help, eh? When the cylinder wore out, it stopped going up and down because air was moving past the piston freely. Doesn't sound like your problem, though you could check the condition of the cylinder by taking the upper end off. It just un-bolts. Make sure there's no pressure in the system and the ram is all the way down so you can see. It sounds to me like a valve problem. First thing I'd do is make sure the control valve is not sticking. Then make sure the 4 way (or is it 5 way?) valve isn't sticking. Take the hoses off and squirt some oil in. The small control valve was sticking last year, so maybe it's acting up again. I hope that's it. Edit: Bob posted while I was typing. What he said. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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