divermike Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I'm not much for building, and I sure can't draw... but I'm really good at drooling, and my girl I like to paw!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Aj Thats a pretty slick apperatice for your band saw, with the chain and cable. I have never seen anything like it. Did you make it? Here's a shot showing the cable and pulleys for the automatic feed from the rear. Most any old saw that's in a shop is just about always wiped out, with the attachments broke and or missing. But with everything there and working, it's a weapon! AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 I'm not much for building, and I sure can't draw... but I'm really good at drooling, and my girl I like to paw!! Mike, some of the attachments for this saw came from N.Y. An old boy had a bunch of extra pieces... I like your artwork on your picture... Thanks, AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KST1-Derek Fultz Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Hi AJ, I'm following this build with high interest. You're doing an amazing job, and the comments/suggestions are top notch. I had pretty much ruled out an air hammer for my build, but you're bringing me back around. Do you have any ideas on how much SFM will be needed to run this thing at a steady pace? I guess I could ask this to everyone out there (haven't taken the time to search); Would my compressor (rated at 12 scfm @120psi, 14scfm @ 40psi)run a moderately sized kinyon or new style kinyon? -Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Looks like I'm at a stopping place. I've got to have the leaf spring for the top before I can go further. I'm told that will be another 3 - 4 days. I did have a brain wave, put the heavy plate on top of some tubing so I'll be able to move things in and out of the shop if need be. Just grab it with the forklift and go.. The anvil is just sitting on the plate. I'll weld that on last to get things lined up correctly. Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Hi AJ, I'm following this build with high interest. You're doing an amazing job, and the comments/suggestions are top notch. I had pretty much ruled out an air hammer for my build, but you're bringing me back around. Do you have any ideas on how much SFM will be needed to run this thing at a steady pace? I guess I could ask this to everyone out there (haven't taken the time to search); Would my compressor (rated at 12 scfm @120psi, 14scfm @ 40psi)run a moderately sized kinyon or new style kinyon? -Derek That's a loaded question that everyone has an opinion on. According to Ron the designer, I believe, don't quote me on this... Seems like around a 5hp compressor is needed. Bare in mind I've never ran one, but I don't think I'll be running it for long periods of time wide open. I would think my compressor would keep up. That's what I have is a 5hp on a 120gal tank.. Sorry I don't have any hard data on this for you. Thanks, AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Here's a shot showing the cable and pulleys for the automatic feed from the rear. Most any old saw that's in a shop is just about always wiped out, with the attachments broke and or missing. But with everything there and working, it's a weapon! AJ I worked in a shop with a Doall like yours. It had the lever coming out of the side near the bottom like in the picture. I wondered what it was for. Now I know. Thanks! Something else to keep an eye out for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Air hammers run on CFM's not HP's. By that I mean there are so called "5hp" compressors that put out 7cfm and 5hp compressors that put out around 20 CFM. Forget horsepower, look at CFM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 $400 cfms for a 750 Niles Bement Pond and $250 cfms for a 200 or 300 Chamburgsburg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 $400 cfms for a 750 Niles Bement Pond and $250 cfms for a 200 or 300 Chamburgsburg. WOW... what a shop you have. I'd say you're set up to do just about anything. Darn good looking web site too!! Can't get more professional looking than that. Who's the homely looking guy in all the shots?? AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 $400 cfms for a 750 Niles Bement Pond and $250 cfms for a 200 or 300 Chamburgsburg. That's a lot of air. Your hammers are probably kinda loose. Chamberburg quoted 25 CFM per 100 pounds of ram weight, although I find the little "utility hammers" (one-piece) used a lot more. Makes a big difference if the hammer shipped from the factory set-up for steam of air. Ran my 800 on 125CFM not quite continuous and later my 1500 ran flat-out all day on a 400CFM. But (there's always a but) my 700 Bell steam hammers could suck that 400 dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 WOW... what a shop you have. I'd say you're set up to do just about anything. Darn good looking web site too!! Can't get more professional looking than that. Who's the homely looking guy in all the shots?? AJ Think its the high iron blood content! Looks like you just cant keep your hands clean either. That's a lot of air. Your hammers are probably kinda loose. Chamberburg quoted 25 CFM per 100 pounds of ram weight, although I find the little "utility hammers" (one-piece) used a lot more. Makes a big difference if the hammer shipped from the factory set-up for steam of air. Ran my 800 on 125CFM not quite continuous and later my 1500 ran flat-out all day on a 400CFM. But (there's always a but) my 700 Bell steam hammers could suck that 400 dry. I'm surprised 50 should run a 200? Thats encouraging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm surprised 50 should run a 200? Thats encouraging. Depends on condition and whether it was built for air and as I said the little ones seem to need more. They don't take big gulps, but they can sure run fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Aj and I have been in email contact for a few days and I decided to post a short video to explain the controls on my hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Back on the project. The spring came in despite of all the bad weather. I whittled out the top of the ram so the spring would fit in and drill a 5/8 hole for the mounting bolt. Made the little block to hold the shackles and tack welded it in place to see how things are going to work out. So far so good. It all seem fairly straight forward at this point. I've been playing with the idea of the Bull controls. With a lot of help from Ciladog, he's kind of got me on track. Everything is simple once we get there. But for now it's the challenge that's got me working on them. And it aint real simple for me at this stage of the process. Attached a drawing and a ZIP file of a movie to show how the linkage would be arranged. It mimics the bull real close in movement so it should work if I can figure out all the rest. I'm still going to build the controls as the manual shows, (as Paul has them speced out). Bull controls are something that can be added after the hammer is up and going. Just something to study. They would be cool to have. I'd put a piece of plexiglass over the control box to show all the pieces, parts and work/time that goes into it. Later, AJlinkage 2.ZIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 ajclay, Your attempt on the bull control in your flash is close,but when the treadle is stepped on the bottom end of the link only pivots it doesn't move back and forth because you've moved it reward when you stepped on the treadle and it will remain there until you release your foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 ajclay, Your attempt on the bull control in your flash is close,but when the treadle is stepped on the bottom end of the link only pivots it doesn't move back and forth because you've moved it reward when you stepped on the treadle and it will remain there until you release your foot. Doc, Thanks for the input... I couldn't get it not to move in the little avi file. Autodesk Inventor allows the designer to move different parts of the drawing, but I can't really make it act the same as real life so to speak... You'd be surprised how close it is to ciladog's drawing. It's a challenge to understand the workings of your hammer and I'm only at the tip of the iceberg. Understanding is one thing, but building all the parts and tuning is.... well, a hell of a task. Take Care, Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Fantastic! I am surprised at how short the spring really is.... I mean I dont know why I am as the length from the back of the hammer frame to the top of the tup is what it is... but in place it just looks like a short little thing... Should be quite lively... I hope you will be able to take some short video of the hammer running soon as you finish this bad boy up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Fantastic! I am surprised at how short the spring really is.... I mean I dont know why I am as the length from the back of the hammer frame to the top of the tup is what it is... but in place it just looks like a short little thing... Should be quite lively... I hope you will be able to take some short video of the hammer running soon as you finish this bad boy up! The length of my spring is about 21in center to center from the shackles to the middle of the tup. It a stout little guy.. Business is really slow for me and this project is running out of money. I've still have the air valves and controls left to purchase and really don't have the funds at this time. So a running completed hammer may be a little ways down the road. But, there still is a lot work I can do on it. thanks, Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 What do you need for a air valve? I might have one kicking about, What else do you need for the control circuit? My guess is if you put the call out you could come up with the parts surplus or used at very little cost... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Another piece made. The bracket to hold the air cylinder to the spring is complete. I had a brain wave to put a couple of set screws on the top part of the bracket to help hold the little bracket on location. I don't know if it would slip on the spring after a good bit of use, but the set screws will help if it wants to slide. Tomorrow will be the day I'm going to stand it up on the base plate to get an over view of what I got. That will show me the correct spot to weld the lower air cylinder bracket to the main support tube. The air cylinder has to be located so there is no chance of it bottoming out in either direction. I should have about an inch to play with. Thanks, Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 A long while back Monstermetal made the comment that the cyl look larger than he thought it should be. I didn't really think to much of it at the time, but he was right. Also, Ron Kinyon mentioned to me that he was running an 8in long cyl on his hammer. That was two hints that just didn't sink in my thick head. An air hammer that uses a cylinder that travels a shorter distance uses less air too. I guess that's why I keep hearing that this style air hammer will run on a smaller compressor. The ram on my hammer has 11 inches of stroke. With the top of air cylinder mounted 4 inches back from the top bolt, the air cylinder only needs to push up a little less than 8 inches to move the ram 11 inches. I purchased a 12 in cylinder.. way to long. I just ordered one that's 9.5in long. That will still give about 3/4 of an inch on either side of the stroke.. Also, it will move the lower mounting boss up higher on the rear tube. Good thing I didn't weld it. Lucky for me the vendor took back the 12 cylinder. AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well, there is no free lunch. Even though it can be of shorter stroke, it does need to be a little larger bore than a direct acting cylinder in order to apply the same force to the ram. One advantage to larger bore cylinders is that they often have larger porting which is a distinct advantage at the speeds we want a hammer to run. If the cylinder was connected in the middle of the arm, it could have 1/2 the stroke, but would need to have twice the area. Thus it would have the same swept volume and use the same amount of air. You PM'ed me about pilot/pilot vs pilot/spring valves. I don't see any advantage to the pilot/pilot, the spring return seems like the simplest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Well, there is no free lunch. Even though it can be of shorter stroke, it does need to be a little larger bore than a direct acting cylinder in order to apply the same force to the ram. One advantage to larger bore cylinders is that they often have larger porting which is a distinct advantage at the speeds we want a hammer to run. If the cylinder was connected in the middle of the arm, it could have 1/2 the stroke, but would need to have twice the area. Thus it would have the same swept volume and use the same amount of air. You PM'ed me about pilot/pilot vs pilot/spring valves. I don't see any advantage to the pilot/pilot, the spring return seems like the simplest. Thanks Grant, you always seem to shine a little light in the gray areas. It makes good sense when you brake it down like that. AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I think the spring should be stiffer if you move the cylinder rod connexion back to the middle of the spring... There's also an advantage to the 'arm' actuated ram, the cylinder ports are bigger (as said above) and the cylinder stroke is shorter so the piston travels at lower speed than the ram, reducing wear of the seals. And I'm not sure but I think this way also increases max bpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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