monstermetal Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Man I got to say your progress is really impressive. When you said you where going to build a hammer way back when I kind of though, oh yeah another "gonna build a hammer guy" (you cant believe how many of those there are, myself included) But man you not only meant it, you raised the bar... Really fantastic thread and what is going to be a great machine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Man I got to say your progress is really impressive. When you said you where going to build a hammer way back when I kind of though, oh yeah another "gonna build a hammer guy" (you cant believe how many of those there are, myself included) But man you not only meant it, you raised the bar... Really fantastic thread and what is going to be a great machine... Hey, thanks for the confidence! I hope it turns out like it should. If I get some paying jobs in the shop the progress will slow down a bit, but I will finish this project. One thing for sure when it starts to move, I'm going to need help from everyone. I've got to the point I'm going to flip my "die mounting plate" over. This plate will weld to the 4in square tubing. I was trying to come up with another method of attaching the dies, but the "bolt-on" ones is just to easy. I don't believe this hammer will benefit from the wedge/dovetail type dies. Maybe the next hammer if there will be one. I drilled holes every 45 degs so I'll be able to reposition them if need be. Thanks again, AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormented Soul Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Nice Job on the hammer so far! I learned to program g-code on a wells index. Ours was so old all of the circuit boards were wire wrapped! The control cabinet stood off to the side and was as large as a refrigerator! Sorry for the hijack, I just haven't seen a wells index in 15 years. Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Thanks for recording the build process so well. It helps me to visualize what you are doing since I don't have much of a grasp of some of the terminology that you are using. You are displaying some fine craftsmanship in building this hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Nice Job on the hammer so far! I learned to program g-code on a wells index. Ours was so old all of the circuit boards were wire wrapped! The control cabinet stood off to the side and was as large as a refrigerator! Sorry for the hijack, I just haven't seen a wells index in 15 years. Zach Zach, that's what the computer look like that I took out of this mill. It was huge. I filled up a full size garbage can with the stuff. All the boards were wrapped copper wire around different pins.. I never seen anything like it. Mine was located in a large cabinet on the rear of the machine.... We all should go right now and Kiss our PC...!! Don't get to talking years... my machine is about 43 years old, made late 70s..... Thanks, Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Thanks for recording the build process so well. It helps me to visualize what you are doing since I don't have much of a grasp of some of the terminology that you are using. You are displaying some fine craftsmanship in building this hammer. Thank You, I appreciate it!!.. I've struggled learning basic machine work and getting equipment. Now when I do some little operation, I can't go back and do the way of years past. I can't skip any steps... It takes me a lot longer to do things now, but I'm trying to put a little extra detail on parts that I never knew existed when I was younger.. Thanks again! Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 I've got the thick plate welded on the bottom of the ram. Welding is like a paint job. A lot of work goes to preparation. I sanded de-scaled the side to be welded on and even abrasive blasted it. Took the 1/2in thick, 4in tubing and beveled the end to where less than 1/8in was left in thickness. Used a machinist square and draw filed the end as square as I could get it. Stood it on the end, measured with a depth caliper to center the tubing on the plate. Tacked the corners, double checked everything. I used a .002 feeler gauge and checked all sides to make sure the tubing was sitting flat on the plate. Put the rose bud on it till the plate got to 350 plus degrees. Then I "pored the coal" to it as they say. Put 5 T.I.G. passes on it. Skipping around at first to make sure it didn't pull to one side. In the middle of the welding process I was up to about 350amps and the last two passes was down to 225-250. Had a large screen cup and 5/32 tungsten on the torch. That was about the best I could to in perfect conditions. When I finished (about 90 minutes later) the other end of the tubing was even super hot.... Thanks, AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 I was back at it today. This hammer will have bolt-on dies, So I made two 1/2in plates the dies will weld to. I don't know if it was necessary to make the plates have the ability to bolt on at different positions, but that's the way I did it. The bolt pattern on the bottom of ram has 8 holes 45 degrees apart on a 5in circle. I cut out the plates and ran the same drill program in the mill so they would bolt up without interference. I drilled one plate with bolt clearance, and the other one I drilled bolt "tap drill" size. I tack welded that plate to the top of the anvil and used it as a jig to drill the holes. Scribing the bolt pattern, center punching, and drilling just wasn't an option with this thing. It's just way to heavy to move around and keep things accurate. I needed all the help I could get, so I opted for the jig. It worked out great. It still wore me out just lining things up with the jig.. An 8lb dead blow hammer and a crowbar was what it took to move it around in the drill press. I'll tap the holes tomorrow, I just ran out of steam... I had a job come in the shop today.... darn customers! I might have to skip a day on the project. Don't know if I'll be able to do it cause I've been having way to much fun..! Thanks, AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Some progress today. I got all the holes tapped in the anvil. This is where so many people go astray. The tap does not follow the hole. It takes time to tap a hole straight freehand. Care must be used to start it as straight as possible checking it next to a machinist square. One hour later 8 holes threaded.. Also purchased some grade 8 bolts. All bolts won't be used when the dies are welded in place. 2in x 2in x 6in are the size of the dies that go on these plate. Tomorrow the air cylinder and related parts are suppose to show up.. Thanks, AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Looks like its gonna be a sweet hammer, nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beslagsmed Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Great thread. Thanks for taking the time to take pic and post them. From the looks of it, I would love to have your shop, seems like you got all the right "toys"!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinculo Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 This is a great thread. I'm learning some much from this. For a brief period I entertained building my own hammer. After seeing the depth of detail and attention in this hammer, I'm feeling very good about sending John Larson a deposit on a hammer. This is way beyond my machinist skills at the level these guys are working. Kudos, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 This is a great thread. I'm learning some much from this. For a brief period I entertained building my own hammer. After seeing the depth of detail and attention in this hammer, I'm feeling very good about sending John Larson a deposit on a hammer. This is way beyond my machinist skills at the level these guys are working. Kudos, There is no question that you could build an air hammer. Buy the plans from Paul and get with it. All you need is basic tools and skills. As someone told me early on in this thread.... don't re-invent the wheel... The hammer will work good as the plans have it drawn.. There will always be someone with a better and bigger hammer or tool. I've been building up my tools for a long time. So I have a few luxuries some people don't have. And, I've had good mentors, but the main thing, I ask for help and opinions on things I'm sketchy on. A guy with basic skills in welding and metal work can build a nice hammer. IMO, the best way to learn is to have a project. This is a good project to learn new skills... It's just metal.... There is nothing better than to use a tool that I've made.! What I've found out over the years, most people just can't or won't devote the time to build something the best they can. We all live so fast and are being pulled on from so many directions it's hard to devote the time.. If there is something you don't know how to do... ASK, I'm not an expert, but I'll help in any way that I can. At the price of time you can find pieces and parts at a deal and save some money to buy new parts.... e-mail - ajclay@cox.net - phone - 225-926-9562 - Call or come by the shop if you're in my neck of the woods.. Take care, Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 This is about where I am in the build. I removed one side of the guide box extension in the drawing to show the air cylinder better. Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 My air cylinder came in today and I've been figuring on the mounting brackets and placements. The cylinder has to be in a "sweet spot" so it won't bottom out in either direction of the ram movement. I purchased a cylinder about an inch longer than the travel of the ram and been tweaking the parts in Autodesk Inventor to get things figured out. This looks about right. I going to mock up the hammer and make sure things are going to line up and work like they are suppose to before I give them the final weld. I'll just tack weld things at first. The attached short 10 sec video shows the action. I removed one guide box extension so the cylinder show up in full view. I had to zip the file to post it... Thanks, Ajair hammer.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Ok guys, here is where I need your experience. I've never ran an air hammer. So I need your in-put. The length of the lower air cylinder bracket. I've posted 4 photos.... Something keeps telling me to keep it short. (photo 000.jpg) I know I can build a thick long (003.jpg). The longer one probably is better because it will make the air cylinder straighter with the ram. The thing I don't have any idea about..... is the long one going to make the air cylinder get in the way of using the hammer? Forging or hammering iron, will it be a problem? What you think?? Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-hr Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 AJ, Trying not to beat a dead horse, but 'You the Man' for taking your time to post your efforts! I've got the Kinyon plans, and plan on tackling this project in the next couple months. I understand fully your concern about the bracket placement. What I can't figure out is why the upper cylinder is mounted so close to the hammer head. I run a mechanical leafspring hammer, there is a dynamic going on with the spring, toggle arms,blows/minute, and die clearance that creates a whip to the blow. It seems like a person should be able to fiddle with moving the upper cylinder mount back and forth, and find a place where the leafspring up top starts working for you, in more than just a mechanical transition kind of way. With that thought in mind, I'm tempted to mount the lower bracket farther out, so I'll have more fiddlin' room. I hope somebody out there has thought about this also, and has some input. A quick thought from a couple posts up, reguarding hand tapping holes. If you take a big thick block , like 2 x 2 x 2 inch, that's machined square, and drill a nice hole the size of the tap in the middle, use it for a tap lining up guage. The tap is required by the bore to start in a straight line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 AJ, Trying not to beat a dead horse, but 'You the Man' for taking your time to post your efforts! I've got the Kinyon plans, and plan on tackling this project in the next couple months. I understand fully your concern about the bracket placement. What I can't figure out is why the upper cylinder is mounted so close to the hammer head. I run a mechanical leaf spring hammer, there is a dynamic going on with the spring, toggle arms,blows/minute, and die clearance that creates a whip to the blow. It seems like a person should be able to fiddle with moving the upper cylinder mount back and forth, and find a place where the leaf spring up top starts working for you, in more than just a mechanical transition kind of way. With that thought in mind, I'm tempted to mount the lower bracket farther out, so I'll have more fiddlin' room. I hope somebody out there has thought about this also, and has some input. A quick thought from a couple posts up, regarding hand tapping holes. If you take a big thick block , like 2 x 2 x 2 inch, that's machined square, and drill a nice hole the size of the tap in the middle, use it for a tap lining up guage. The tap is required by the bore to start in a straight line. Mike, I just don't have any idea about how the spring is going to whip or flex. Just never been around one of these hammers. I've only seen photos and the connection up top seems to be forward toward the ram. That's really the only reason I have it drawn that way. The top connection is adjustable, but the bottom isn't. We got to get the bottom right the first time if possible. Other wise we're going to mess up the paint job on re-welding something. Take a look at these photos located on page one:page__p__164852__hl__kinyon__fromsearch__1?do=embed#entry164852' frameborder='0' data-embedContent> The mount seems to be forward and the cylinder is slanted. Maybe they aren't completed hammers... I don't know and have no idea. I'm seeing it your way on mounting it farther out from the rear post to allow for more adjustment and movement. And the cylinder is going to be more vertical. I guess too, it shouldn't really get in the way of the work either? Thanks for the in-put.. Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I don't see any compelling reason to try to orient the cylinder closer to vertical. I'd probably mount it close up to the column myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Would there be any reason why you couldn't build a lower bracket with a few different hole positions that would allow you some flexibility with the mounting position? You could then fiddle with the mounting location to tune it if at all possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Your cylinder looks disproportionally large in the illustration.. Is the one you bought really that much larger what the plans call for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Your cylinder looks disproportionally large in the illustration.. Is the one you bought really that much larger what the plans call for? Way back at first I had drawn a smaller dia cylinder. But the one drawn in the photos above is to scale and what the plans call for. Took the measurements off of the actual cylinder I received yesterday. Some times the angle of view and colors will mess with my mind too in the drawing program.... There is one difference. Mine is two inches longer than what's called for in the plans. My hammer has a little for stroke, so I had to go with a little longer cylinder. There's got to be a little travel left in the cylinder after max movement / travel. At least we're thinking... That's a good thing! Thanks, Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajclay Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Would there be any reason why you couldn't build a lower bracket with a few different hole positions that would allow you some flexibility with the mounting position? You could then fiddle with the mounting location to tune it if at all possible. You got me thinking about making it adjustable. The only draw-back is the looks, just not a "clean" looking as a single mount. I think I'm going to kick things around for a day or so, and by then the spring should arrive and I'll have all the pieces.. I may mount the spring first then I'll be able to "hang" the cylinder in place and really scrutinize the design. Thanks, AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 This is going to be a great looking hammer no doubt but as far as messing up the paint cant you mock up try it then tear it down for finish? I to feel the top is to close to the head but I don't have much experience in the types of hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Double post. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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