David Browne Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Given that my work is all done by me, sledge hammers rarely enter my voocabulary. Given that I work in an extremely cramped work 400 sq ft work shop there is no room to swing one. Given that in that shoebox there are 3 power hammers , 2 elecrohydraulic presses (15T and 30T) 2 flypresses and a treadle hammer, I have no need of a sledge hammer ..... so far David, it still boggles my mind how you manage all this in 400 sf. Now, every time I find myself complaining that I think I need more space, I look at some of the work you've produced in that tiny shop and shut my mouth (and all without a Hofi hammer...amazing!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Simmons Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I dont think Hofi is trying to say everyone but him is doing it wrong. I think he is more like saying "here is an alternative way." It is up to everyone to choose the way that is best for themselves. I think people get too upset when people disagree with their way and then take it as a personal insult. That is just my opinion of course but I think there is room for all techniques. I am personally interested in the style and trying to find out if it is actuall worthe the effort. Being a programmer, I am acutely aware of repeditive motion injuries and what they can cause. Several tendons in my left wrist flame up to a nasty level of pain on occasion after years of typing. I will never be able to reprogram my head to type differently or my golf swing to be different since it is so ingrained in my head and muscle memory. That is why I am interested in learning Hofi's technique right out the door before I have burned any hammering motions too far into my brain. To those that have a technique that suits them and leaves them happy, I doubt anyone is realy tying to say your tecnique is incorrect, just that there are alternatives. Chocolate and vanilla are both yummy flavors, we dont need to get upset over debating which is better. In freedom there is variety and that variety is what makes the world interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I dont think Hofi is trying to say everyone but him is doing it wrong. I think he is more like saying "here is an alternative way." It is up to everyone to choose the way that is best for themselves. I think people get too upset when people disagree with their way and then take it as a personal insult. That is just my opinion of course but I think there is room for all techniques. Actually that is exactly why some people get their backs up over Hofi. I watched him Demo at Quadstate a few years ago, he more or less said that if you are not using his techinques you are doing it wrong. Yes Hofi is an excellent smith and one of the hammers I use regularly is a Hofi hammer made by Tom Clark. But I know several smiths who I consider to be much better blacksmiths than Hofi who do not use his hammers of techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 I have run into a number of people to whom their way is THE ONLY WAY; EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT WRONG! This has lead me to tell my students that THERE IS ONLY *ONE* RIGHT WAY TO DO SOMETHING WHEN SMITHING---AND THAT IS: ANYWAY THAT WORKS! Hofi's attitude reminds me quite a lot of some of my German co-workers; you learn to ignore it a lot of the time. Actually I find it more annoying from other people; but converts are often stronger in their views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Hofi has his hammer and method of use for that hammer on the table for all to see and learn his method. For those with another or better way, you should have the same opportunity. So start a new thread on how YOU build and/or swing YOUR hammer. Please include the type of steel used, the rough dimensions of the starting piece, the finished weight of the hammer head, the design features that make this hammer different from other hammers, the swing technique that moves metal at a faster or in a more efficient way, pr saves wear and tear on the body, and what sets this type of swing apart and ahead of other methods. This way we learn, apply and compare techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 ofafeather---are you placing your thumb on the top? I prefer to swing a powerhammer with a crane myself... I think I had my thumb under it. Somehow, I usually end up with my foot in it...and I don't even have a powerhammer! :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngdylan Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Hofi has his hammer and method of use for that hammer on the table for all to see and learn his method. I'm not sure his method is ON the table for ALL to see. Doesn't he sell his video? I did a quick search a while back to try and find out what all the hoohaa about his method was about before I came to any opinion of it. Wasn't much info for free out there then, maybe it's different now. I must admit I haven't studied his method in detail but the loose grip and "whip" aspect of it is just intuitive, if you think about what you are doing you more or less end doing this. People have done so for centurie, well, at least over here they have. An old boy once told me to move the hammer like "you're whipping your slave". I wasn't quite sure how to react, I found it a bit offensive but I couldn't help but respect his experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Am I risking even more opprobrium by suggesting that there's unlikely to be much that hasn't been thought of in the last three thousand odd years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Wow. "Opprobrium" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Yeah... I needed the spell check for that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Am I risking even more opprobrium by suggesting that there's unlikely to be much that hasn't been thought of in the last three thousand odd years? Great word! I'll have to try to remember that one. In a way, your right about the fact that there's not much new under the sun. I think a big part of the difference is the way that information is shared in our internet world. The simple fact that we can share information and have it easily accessible to most people over distances of thousands of miles makes a significant difference. Traditionally people were limited to acquiring knowledge in their immediate region or they would have to travel to acquire it. Smithing is no different. Just look at how regional styles differ. Eastern, Western, Continental or English, etc. These styles developed over thousands of years, as you said. Today we are exposed to so many ways of doing things, it's truly fantastic. The other side of the coin, though, is that so many of us hobby smiths are self taught. The idea that everyone knows how to use a hammer is what gets us into trouble. When you learn from a master you have the possibility of absorbing the long experience of many generations of smiths. The best people in most fields are the ones that have learned from the masters then added to that, based are their insight and experience. Has Hofi done things that have never been done before? I really don't know. I'm not an expert so can't say. At the very least he has expanded on a tradition and brought it to light in a way that hasn't been done before. In the long run I think that taking the time to analyze what you are doing is the important thing. Why do you do it a certain way? Can you make it more efficient? Is there a better way? Many people will accept the word of the master and leave it at that. The people that get the most out of it are usually the ones who examine the premise and challenge it. If the concept passes the challenge then it stays the way it is. If not, changes are sought. Hofi has done this. Is it totally unique? I can't say. Surely there are elements that have come to him from other sources. But, each part of his method has at least been analyzed and challenged. Hammer technique is really important. Even if you're a "natural" it's worth analyzing what you're doing and challenging it. Most athletes, musicians, anyone who needs a technique for something, do this to some degree. Chances are that the people that think that anyone knows how to use a hammer are right - most people do. BUT, they probably don't know how to use it to best effect and with the least impact on the body. Only thought and experience can really do that. One other thing that I find amazing is that historically, when there is a new idea, it doesn't always come from a single source. The same or similar ideas develop simultaneously in different, remote locations - from sources that had no contact with each other. That is amazing to me. These days it's not likely to happen that way, since we're all connected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngdylan Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Am I risking even more opprobrium by suggesting that there's unlikely to be much that hasn't been thought of in the last three thousand odd years? induction heaters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I dunno, you guys are driving me crazy. One " relucttant" master I had the honor of working with for fifteen years was a fourth generation smith, when I started with him, he alone had 55 years at the anvil. 55 years, how old was Hofi when he started? 52 ? I've seen him work it's not like I live in a cave, or I don't like the guy, I don't care either way, I'm just sayin', experience is experience. Learn everything you can from everyone you can and never stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebug Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 I dunno, you guys are driving me crazy. One " relucttant" master I had the honor of working with for fifteen years was a fourth generation smith, when I started with him, he alone had 55 years at the anvil. 55 years, how old was Hofi when he started? 52 ? I've seen him work it's not like I live in a cave, or I don't like the guy, I don't care either way, I'm just sayin', experience is experience. Learn everything you can from everyone you can and never stop Let me say a few things about your post because you make some good points. You do need to learn and usually can learn something from most people or smiths. Having said that I would like to say experience alone a good smith does not make. Yes even a blind squirrel can pick up an acorn every now and then but just because something has been done a certain way for 100 years does not make it the best way or right way. Here is an example from personal experience about years of doing something. The last 6 years I was in the fire department I was a fire investigator. I was the least experienced investigator but rapidly rose to become the best investigator they had in less than 3 years. That was according to the fire chief, deputy fire chief, the chief of the investigative division, the captain of the division and the men on the line, all told me this on numerous occassions. Now what you need to realize is I was working with invetigators that had 7 to 15 years on me. Within a 3 year period I went to Kentucky, Michigan, Indiana, FBI firearms class and became an instructor as well as other things. I did all of this at my own expense too. I obtained 3 different certifications in fire investigations that no one in the division had, including the chief investigator. Within a 2 year period I was the man that was called in if off duty to investigate fire related deaths. I attended all autopsies and wrote the reports for most of the deaths as well. The point, while some of the men had 15 years on me they did not apply themselves and did things like they always did, just enough to get by. I was thirsty for knoweledge and always asked WHY. That word served me very well during an investigation, put many people in jail with it and solved alot of fire investigations with it. That is a very big word in life to me, WHY. Turns out Hofi lives the same way, doesn't matter to him if it is master showing him something, he even questions himself. Can this element be made differently? In conversations with Hofi he conveyed to me that on several occassions him and Habberman disagreed to the point of arguing over the way things had been done for many years. Hofi changed some of the ways that Freddy was teaching him. Eventually Habberman agreed that Hofi was right and would even come to Israel to learn from him. I was attending a class in New York that Hofi was teaching when Habberman passed away. I know that Hofi had a deep respect and love for Freddy Habberman, he was very saddened with his passing. Hofi considered him his teacher, like I consider Hofi mine. There is no doubt that Hofi learned many things from other people. What makes him different is he has gathered information from many good smiths all around the world. He tested what he learned, the good he kept, the bad he improved or discarded. I do believe that there are things that he does that were not thought of before. He also has a love for teaching and passes his knowledge along to anyone that wants it. Not going to mention any methods or ways of forging in particular here, don't want to make anyone mad. But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are ways of doing some of the basic traditional forging methods that are no where near as good as what Hofi teaches. This is not an opinion it is something that can be seen and quantified. I have watched many smiths do some basic forging and it almost hurts to watch them. It takes them literally 3,4,5 times as long to do something than it would take me or any other student that understands what Hofi teaches. I am not saying anyone on this forum is like this, but I have observed many smiths at demos, forge council meetings etc. It is not an isolated occurance. Don't sell yourself short by thinking that you are in the presence of a great smith simply because he has been doing it for 25 years. Judge each smith according to his ability. And I am not saying that the smith you worked with wasn't good. If you do find a smith that is good and willing to teach you hang on to him but do not follow blindly. Believe it or not I don't follow Hofi blindly and he wouldn't have it any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 http://www.angele-sh...foldershare.php Attuched the my 75 years birthday greetings from ANGELE GERMANYClick Here Hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebug Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 That was very nice of them. I sure would like to have one of those anvils under my Christmas Tree this year. Maybe Santa Clause will be nice to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Have very happy birthday Mr hofi, do we keep you amused with our debates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Happy Birthday Hofi !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! Hope you have many more. And Thank You for sharing your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernaut Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 I have used many hammers over the years including a Hoffi 2.5 pound. I always thought that a hammer is a hammer is hammer.But I had used the Hoffi just like any other. Finally a friend started to teach me the Hoffi method and it has changed the way I smith. I now use a heavier in fact twice as heavy of a hammer as before at 4.6 pounds. I move a lot more metal doing work in one to two heats that use to take five to six.I last longer and don't get the joint pain in the elbow or shoulder that I use to get. So call it hype or call it placebo effect it works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebug Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 I have used many hammers over the years including a Hoffi 2.5 pound. I always thought that a hammer is a hammer is hammer.But I had used the Hoffi just like any other. Finally a friend started to teach me the Hoffi method and it has changed the way I smith. I now use a heavier in fact twice as heavy of a hammer as before at 4.6 pounds. I move a lot more metal doing work in one to two heats that use to take five to six.I last longer and don't get the joint pain in the elbow or shoulder that I use to get. So call it hype or call it placebo effect it works for me. Jug, I am glad you have had this result from using the Hofi hammer. There is a lot more to it than just swinging away at the metal. After you use the method for a while you will get better and better at it. You truly can move a large amount of metal in a shorter amount of time compared to most ways people forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernforge Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Happy birthday Hofi and many more! Am I risking even more opprobrium by suggesting that there's unlikely to be much that hasn't been thought of in the last three thousand odd years? I didn't know they knew about or studied ergonomics and vectored physics three thousand years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Can i make two observations without offending anyone? I have read and heard that the Hofi hammer is balanced because all the weight is the middle, how can this be when most of the middle is taken up by the large rectangular hole for the handle? Secondly, I have seen a video where someone is using a Hofi sledge hammer, how does the hammer/technique principal work here as the method of using a one handed forging hammer and a two handed sledge hammer are going to be completely different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connor bachmann Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 I've never used a Hofi hammer, however, I did follow Hofi's ergonomic hammering technique, but using a flat mallet, cross-pein, and ball-pein, I'm totally happy. But don't trust my word, I'm just a noob :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebug Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Can i make two observations without offending anyone? I have read and heard that the Hofi hammer is balanced because all the weight is the middle, how can this be when most of the middle is taken up by the large rectangular hole for the handle? Secondly, I have seen a video where someone is using a Hofi sledge hammer, how does the hammer/technique principal work here as the method of using a one handed forging hammer and a two handed sledge hammer are going to be completely different? The Hofi hammer is balanced because the weight of the hammer is distributed more equally on both sides of the eye, not because most of the weight is located in the center of the hammer head. Because of this you can tilt the hammer to the side much further than most any other hammer out there without it wanting to twist in your hand. When a hammer tries to twist in your hand you must counteract it with your wrist. This in turn puts pressure on your wrist and over years can cause problems. I have tested this with several hammers including the Sweedish hammer and there is no doubt that the Hofi hammer has much more control when it comes to rebound. Try it. Why is that important? Because if you think about it, most of the time you are not hammering straight down. You will tilt the hammer in order to lesson the amount of hammer head surface striking the material to in turn move more material. On a side note. I have talked about what results from putting your thumb on top of the hammer handle.It causes nerve damage which runs up to your neck. I recently did a gate for a neuro-surgeon. We have become friends, he happens to live 2 minutes from me. He confirmed that placing your thumb on top of the hammer handle can in time cause this condition which would require surgery to correct and asked me if I had this problem. I explained how I hold the hammer and strike and he was impressed. I should not have that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.