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what makes a Hofi Hammer so great


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To get more speed you are not only swinging your arm faster as you would anyway, you hold the hammer losely between your thumb and first two fingers and let it pivot just before it strikes the steel. This like adding another joint or pivot point and this is what really speeds the hammer head up. If you hold the hammer with a firm grip you will use your shoulder, elbow and wrist to create velocity. Doing this you do not have to swing your arm any faster than you normally do to increase velocity.

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Hey, I work in a hammer making shop and one of the hammers we make (and our biggest seller) is the stubby little spade shaped hammer! I’m not the expert on this hammer but I do spend a lot of my time in front of the finishing equipment thinking about the use of these hammers. I have been a full time metalworker for 10 years and these are the five steps I take into account when setting up a forging possess whether it be under power or by hand.

1. Input energy: About a year ago I built a watt scale to measure the total input energy of a hammer blow provided you could hit the target. The scale is modeled after the high striker game only is mounted at anvil height. There is a full article available through the Hot Iron Sparkle (our NCABANA publication) as well plan are available if anyone wants to build one. The scale is indicated in joules and those increments where found by dropping weighs from a series of set heights to produce known measurement of input energy via the classical method to find the energy of a non rotating body in a fixed frame. The Mass of the object multiplied by the speed of that object in its frame, that total divided by two equals joules seconds for the purpose of calculating energy transfer . Once indicated the scale allows one to work backwards knowing the mass of the hammer to find the speed at which it was moving when it its target. All of this of course is a bit crude but for the purpose of my experiment it yielded well enough the data to be able to make a conclusion from the results. What I found is that in most cases there is a cap of the impact speed of a hammer that is swung with one hand (no matter how long the handle). When you pick up the bigger hammer you have so much more going for you in order to produce a height amount of input energy, the arch of your body provided ample distance to accelerate a huge hammer to a height speed provided you can lift it. Although it is not practical in most cases to use a huge hammer in almost every case I tested smiths with a bigger hammer made more input energy provided they could hit the target and lift the hammer.

2. Forgoing Dies: So you have all this energy, Now what to do with it? There are so many ways to squander the work you have put in to every swing. Not only do you have to account for direct surface of the material being worked but what will happen to it. Where will it flow to as the energy transfers? For the purpose of hand forgoing the bottom die is your static anvil and you top die the dynamic hammer. There are so many possibilities and this style of hammer helps you to take advantage of every facet of the face of the hammer. When I dress the faces of our hammers the sides of the face are polished so that every edge may be used as a partial or full peen as you roll the hammer further over on it axis. The tight center mass and short head allow you to roll the hammer further over without it tipping on impact so you don’t have to grip the handle as tightly (thus encouraging you to let the hammer do the work). This I feel is the main advantage of this type of hammer.

3. Inertia: No matter how fast you swing that one pound ball peen at the piece of two inch square the energy will be absorbed in the corresponding surface mass of the overwhelming stock. The energy will not overcome the inertia of the piece you are working, and while it seems like a good thing to have all of the energy go into deforming the hot metal all you do is make a mushroom! Inertia is a huge tool that most people use in there forging but few understand. Despite what the troll engineers want you to think energy transfer is not instant, the hammer hit the hot steel, the steel deforms against the decelerating hammer. The steel accelerates in spite of its inertia. As it accelerates it is driven into the bottle die and deforms again as well as transferring energy into the bottom die. Some of that energy will pass through the structure of the bottom die as it to deforms , but in its deformation as it resists it own inertia it builds up that energy like a spring and thrust it back though the piece of steel. This can be exploited for everything from shouldering a piece to binding and striating. Laying out this timeline will help you to understand what is happening to the steel as your strike it. Your hammer to anvil ratio is no more important than how they measure up to the hot steel in between. So in a lot of cases that 3 pound hammer is forging that piece of hot half inch square steel better not only because there is more input energy but the process of energy transfer is also better.

4. Frequency: When I make our touch make on a bar I use a #4 hammer because I only need to hit it once. When I know I will be forging larger sock I use a #3, I can’t hit as many times in a minute but the heat last longer and I can pace myself and move the metal more with each hit. When forging leave and small thing as well as planishing I use#2 or smaller so I can get is a lot of hits per minute but I’m not lifting all that weight for each hit. This is where having a good selection of hammers and knowing what works best for you and your body comes in handy.

5. Possess practicality: A few weeks ago the shop Forman and I had a full day of nonstop hand forging ahead of us. Every hour or so of back to back heats I changed my hammers size and process in order to use my body differently. You are the most versatile tool in the shop; the hammer is only a lump of metal on a stick. You have to find what works for you and be flexible; there is no perfect hammer and no perfect way to swing it. It’s just not practical to swing a one pound ball peen at that piece of two inch square just like it’s not practical to forge quarter inch square with a five pound hammer. Before quoting the master and planning you next heat ask yourself without bias: why! Why each step is there and what is its purpose.

post-15022-0-97156600-1291960353_thumb.j

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The Mass of the object multiplied by the speed of that object in its frame, that total divided by two equals joules seconds for the purpose of calculating energy transfer .


Perhaps you meant "The mass of the object times the square of its velocity divided by two gives the total energy in watt seconds or joules" KE=1/2 M V^2

You've obviously put serious effort into investigating this and done some actual research too. That's a real shot in the arm for this thread where up till now all we've had were opinions. Thank you!

If I understand you, your main point is that its not enough to consider just the energy you build up in the hammer head but you must also take into account the efficiency with which this gets transferred to the work piece. The workpiece can be viewed as a stack of plates and when the hammer strikes it sets up a train of collisions. In an elastic collision, the more massive you are, the more energy you transfer to the other obect. So at point of impact, the bigger hammer will deliver more of its energy to the workpiece.

This point has been completely overlooked till now.
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Im very late into the thread so this post wont mean much :lol: I like the style head of the Hofi. I like the cuppled up short design. The old champions and hellers were a short thick design as well.
As far as weight, I say swing what you can comfortably. If you can control a #4 hammer without hurting yourself then have at it. If a #2 pound is all you can stand then thats fine too. Just because one perosn can do it and another cant dosnt make it right or wrong.

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Hey, I work in a hammer making shop and one of the hammers we make (and our biggest seller) is the stubby little spade shaped hammer! I’m not the expert on this hammer but I do spend a lot of my time in front of the finishing equipment thinking about the use of these hammers. I have been a full time metalworker for 10 years and these are the five steps I take into account when setting up a forging possess whether it be under power or by hand.

1. Input energy: About a year ago I built a watt scale to measure the total input energy of a hammer blow provided you could hit the target. The scale is modeled after the high striker game only is mounted at anvil height. There is a full article available through the Hot Iron Sparkle (our NCABANA publication) as well plan are available if anyone wants to build one. The scale is indicated in joules and those increments where found by dropping weighs from a series of set heights to produce known measurement of input energy via the classical method to find the energy of a non rotating body in a fixed frame. The Mass of the object multiplied by the speed of that object in its frame, that total divided by two equals joules seconds for the purpose of calculating energy transfer . Once indicated the scale allows one to work backwards knowing the mass of the hammer to find the speed at which it was moving when it its target. All of this of course is a bit crude but for the purpose of my experiment it yielded well enough the data to be able to make a conclusion from the results. What I found is that in most cases there is a cap of the impact speed of a hammer that is swung with one hand (no matter how long the handle). When you pick up the bigger hammer you have so much more going for you in order to produce a height amount of input energy, the arch of your body provided ample distance to accelerate a huge hammer to a height speed provided you can lift it. Although it is not practical in most cases to use a huge hammer in almost every case I tested smiths with a bigger hammer made more input energy provided they could hit the target and lift the hammer.

2. Forgoing Dies: So you have all this energy, Now what to do with it? There are so many ways to squander the work you have put in to every swing. Not only do you have to account for direct surface of the material being worked but what will happen to it. Where will it flow to as the energy transfers? For the purpose of hand forgoing the bottom die is your static anvil and you top die the dynamic hammer. There are so many possibilities and this style of hammer helps you to take advantage of every facet of the face of the hammer. When I dress the faces of our hammers the sides of the face are polished so that every edge may be used as a partial or full peen as you roll the hammer further over on it axis. The tight center mass and short head allow you to roll the hammer further over without it tipping on impact so you don’t have to grip the handle as tightly (thus encouraging you to let the hammer do the work). This I feel is the main advantage of this type of hammer.

3. Inertia: No matter how fast you swing that one pound ball peen at the piece of two inch square the energy will be absorbed in the corresponding surface mass of the overwhelming stock. The energy will not overcome the inertia of the piece you are working, and while it seems like a good thing to have all of the energy go into deforming the hot metal all you do is make a mushroom! Inertia is a huge tool that most people use in there forging but few understand. Despite what the troll engineers want you to think energy transfer is not instant, the hammer hit the hot steel, the steel deforms against the decelerating hammer. The steel accelerates in spite of its inertia. As it accelerates it is driven into the bottle die and deforms again as well as transferring energy into the bottom die. Some of that energy will pass through the structure of the bottom die as it to deforms , but in its deformation as it resists it own inertia it builds up that energy like a spring and thrust it back though the piece of steel. This can be exploited for everything from shouldering a piece to binding and striating. Laying out this timeline will help you to understand what is happening to the steel as your strike it. Your hammer to anvil ratio is no more important than how they measure up to the hot steel in between. So in a lot of cases that 3 pound hammer is forging that piece of hot half inch square steel better not only because there is more input energy but the process of energy transfer is also better.

4. Frequency: When I make our touch make on a bar I use a #4 hammer because I only need to hit it once. When I know I will be forging larger sock I use a #3, I can’t hit as many times in a minute but the heat last longer and I can pace myself and move the metal more with each hit. When forging leave and small thing as well as planishing I use#2 or smaller so I can get is a lot of hits per minute but I’m not lifting all that weight for each hit. This is where having a good selection of hammers and knowing what works best for you and your body comes in handy.

5. Possess practicality: A few weeks ago the shop Forman and I had a full day of nonstop hand forging ahead of us. Every hour or so of back to back heats I changed my hammers size and process in order to use my body differently. You are the most versatile tool in the shop; the hammer is only a lump of metal on a stick. You have to find what works for you and be flexible; there is no perfect hammer and no perfect way to swing it. It’s just not practical to swing a one pound ball peen at that piece of two inch square just like it’s not practical to forge quarter inch square with a five pound hammer. Before quoting the master and planning you next heat ask yourself without bias: why! Why each step is there and what is its purpose.


I do not disagree with anything you explain in this post. ALL of what happens when a hammer strikes the material is important. As far as the Hofi hammer is concerned it sounds as though it is similar to what you are making. Short and balanced around the eye so that you can tilt the hammer without it twisting in your hand. The edges are well polished so not to scar the material when you use them.

I have a #2, #2.75, #3 and want a #5 hand hammer and I use them according to what I am forging. I would never use the #2 pound on 1 inch bar, I would grab the #3 or hit the power hammer. Hofi uses different size hammers as well. But for most of what we do by hand we use the #2.75 or #3 hammers.

Here is the point to the way that Hofi teaches his hand hammer technique. There may be others teaching this as well. I think you would agree that hammer weight should be relative to the work you are doing. So it would be up to the smith to select the proper weight hammer for the job. As you said you wouldn't use a #5 pound hammer on 1/4" bar. It is the hammer grip that Hofi teaches that is different from what most teach right now. I am not just talking about using a loose grip. Many teach to hold the hammer losely. Like I have stated before, you hold the hammer losely between your thumb and first 2 fingers and create a pivot point. The hammer pivots like a pindulum. By allowing the hammer to pivot JUST before you strike the steel you SPEED the head up. This increase in speed creates more energy regardless of the weight of the hammer. This is central to the way he teaches, and it works. I would be glad to participate in an experiment to prove or dis-prove it. Where do you live? The U.S.?

By holding the hammer with a firm grip the hammer is nothing more than an extension of your arm. The speed is ALMOST limited to the speed of your arm. I believe that is what you are talking about in paragraph 1. You are limited as a human to just how fast you can swing a hemmer. You can speed the hammer head up by employing a longer handle but that is only practicle to a point and also give the hammer more leverage on you which over time can cause a repetative stress injury.

I am sure there is someone on here that could actually figure how much the hammer head speeds up when it pivoted between the thumb and 2 fingers. I would not be surprised if the speed at least doubles compared to using a firm grip with the hand fully wrapped around the handle. The hammer is one part of the hand hammer technique, the actual grip is another part of the technique.

Lets say that you can swing a #4 pound hammer using a firm, wrapped grip around the hammer. Then someone comes along and shows you how Hofi teaches to swing the hammer. Now you allow the hammer to pivot in your hand to spead the hammer head up and you get more work done in fewer heats.

Hofi travels to Germany about twice a year to teach his methods to German Master Smiths. He also has a group come to his shop from Germany. He was made a Master Smith by the Germans and awarded the highest civilian award by the German Government for his inovations in smithing. It costs about $20,000.00 and about 5 years of formal training in a government approved school plus about 6 years as a journeyman to become a Master Smith. You can not own your own blacksmithing business in Germany without being a Master Smith. He must be on to something for Germany, where we got much of our smithing techniques, to be so interested in him.

So in the end it is not as much the weight of the hammer as it is the method used to swing it. Within certain limitations you can get more work from a lighter hammer swinging it faster. You must use good judgement in the weight selected for the job at hand.

I got to go we will talk some more about this later.
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I would like to see some research devoted to this. Off the top of my head, this is what I see: You are using very powerful muscles in you arm to achieve a certain velocity/force. I can't see a couple fingers doubling that! Output = input.

When I hand forge I seem to be doing as you describe. So, I did some swinging with just my arm. I can get a pretty powerful blow. Then I tried the finger thing without moving my arm. Well, it sure wasn't equal. I'd say it might add 10%.

I would really like to see Anderson do a drawing of his test setup with all of the variables filled in so we can do identical tests. The scale would only need to be in inches for comparison.

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There's no free lunch. To get the hammer to hit with a given velocity requires a the same energy regardless of the arm motion.

I can swing the hammer a darn sight faster than I do when I am actually forging. But I cant control it. The main power comes from the big muscles on the torso, shoulder upper back, abdomen and perhaps even the legs. Most people have power to spare. And usually its not the big muscles that get too tired to work.

Accuracy is just as important as the strength of the blow. The more effective your hits are the fewer you will do. The small advantage of one hammer over another in delivering energy is nothing compared to wasting a whole blow. Check out Brian Brazeal's one heat tong blank video. He doesnt hit that hard and he doesnt hit that fast either. He even takes breaks to think. But every blow counts.

IMO the real question is which hammer and which motion allow you to deliver the most power with control.

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I would like to see some research devoted to this. Off the top of my head, this is what I see: You are using very powerful muscles in you arm to achieve a certain velocity/force. I can't see a couple fingers doubling that! Output = input.

When I hand forge I seem to be doing as you describe. So, I did some swinging with just my arm. I can get a pretty powerful blow. Then I tried the finger thing without moving my arm. Well, it sure wasn't equal. I'd say it might add 10%.

I would really like to see Anderson do a drawing of his test setup with all of the variables filled in so we can do identical tests. The scale would only need to be in inches for comparison.


Grant,

I don't understand this " I tried the finger thing without moving my arm" In order to swing the hammer you have to swing your arm. Swinging the hammer like Hofi teaches involves swinging the arm as usual. You just allow the hammer to pivot in between the fingers. Yes that will increase the velocity and increased velocity equals increased work. There is no way around that. I am not being a smarta$$ in my remark either. I know it is hard to read someone on a chat like this. No insult intended.
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There's no free lunch. To get the hammer to hit with a given velocity requires a the same energy regardless of the arm motion.

I can swing the hammer a darn sight faster than I do when I am actually forging. But I cant control it. The main power comes from the big muscles on the torso, shoulder upper back, abdomen and perhaps even the legs. Most people have power to spare. And usually its not the big muscles that get too tired to work.

Accuracy is just as important as the strength of the blow. The more effective your hits are the fewer you will do. The small advantage of one hammer over another in delivering energy is nothing compared to wasting a whole blow. Check out Brian Brazeal's one heat tong blank video. He doesnt hit that hard and he doesnt hit that fast either. He even takes breaks to think. But every blow counts.

IMO the real question is which hammer and which motion allow you to deliver the most power with control.


You are right about accuracy. Look no further than someone who is a professional typist or guitar player. If you could have seen them in the beginning they would have looked almost foolish as they tried to learn. Fast forward 3 or 4 years and they can type like me without looking at the keyboard or play the guitar without looking at the neck. Hammer technique is the same way. IF you practice a certain way and master it you will not waste those swings.

One of the most important aspects of the swing is allowing the hammer to pivot just before it strikes the steel. And YES this makes a big difference in the amount of energy imparted into the work. All things being equal, if you swing a hammer of a giving weight and increase the heads velocity you WILL create more energy and work. In order to pivot, the head of the hammer has to move faster than the hand holding it, no doubt about that. It would not pivot if it were not moving faster than the hand, it would simply move at the same speed as the hand. So, since the head is moving faster it must be creating more energy and work than if you had a rigid grip.

This is no free lunch. You are doing something, adding another joint or pivot point into the equation, the pivot between the thumb and fingers. You swing the hammer like you normally do and simply allow it to pivot between the thumb and first 2 fingers.

Learning to swing a hammer the way Hofi teaches takes time. It took me a while to get it. I took the basic hammer class 3 times and it clicked one day and man it was like FINALLY this is great. I have a relatively small amount of time smithing but have learned a boat load from him. If you think that you can read something on this board or watch a video once, then go out and master the swing in an hour you are wrong. To some that is a turn-off. I know that there is often more than one way to do things. But, there are usually only 1 or 2 BEST ways to do something. I feel like I have found the best way for me, everyone out there needs to find the best way for them. Sometimes what makes something the best way for one person is not what makes it best for another. To me, I don't care how long it took me to master the swing. I was concerned a lot with economy of motion and damage to the body. This method fits me best.
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Im very late into the thread so this post wont mean much :lol: I like the style head of the Hofi. I like the cuppled up short design. The old champions and hellers were a short thick design as well.
As far as weight, I say swing what you can comfortably. If you can control a #4 hammer without hurting yourself then have at it. If a #2 pound is all you can stand then thats fine too. Just because one perosn can do it and another cant dosnt make it right or wrong.


You are right KYBOY. The weight of the hammer is not the most important thing. Swing what you can swing with accuracy. There is no way around it though, the faster the head moves the more work and energy you will get. There is more than one way to get speed. One way is to swing your arm faster. The other way is to somehow make the hammer travel faster without having to increase arm speed. By allowing your hammer to pivot it increases the speed. That is why the handle is short, so it won't strike the anvil face as it pivots.
Enjoy this debate it will keep going for a while I am sure.
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Grant,

I don't understand this " I tried the finger thing without moving my arm" In order to swing the hammer you have to swing your arm. Swinging the hammer like Hofi teaches involves swinging the arm as usual. You just allow the hammer to pivot in between the fingers. Yes that will increase the velocity and increased velocity equals increased work. There is no way around that. I am not being a smarta$ in my remark either. I know it is hard to read someone on a chat like this. No insult intended.


I was trying to evaluate the two actions separately. Yes, it adds "something", I just don't believe it could double the velocity as you stated. Your arm and shoulder certainly can add more energy than your two fingers. And yes, I can swing the hammer without swinging my arm at all. Do it all the time for rapid planishing blows.
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To clarify, I didn't say that it doubled the velocity by allowing the hammer to pivot. I said I would not be surprised if it did. I can see where you would doubt that. That is just a matter of opinion. I am sure one day some type of scientific test will be done to prove or disprove all of this. As far as not swinging your arm, I was discussing hammer blows where you were actually forging out material not planishing. As far as the two fingers are concerned, it is much more than "two fingers". I have stated several times that you strike with your arm as usual using the shoulder, elbow and wrist. But to that equation you add allowing the hammer to pivot between the fingers. The fingers themselves are not doing anything but holding the hammer and allowing it to pivot. This is not the mystical 3 finger death punch you hear about in martial arts. LOL It simply allows the hammer to pivot adding another joint in the swing which creates more velocity in the hammer.

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post-15022-0-19086000-1292084833_thumb.j

This is the scale mounted to its traveling stand, it can also be mounted in to an anvils hardy hole. The scale is in NC and I will have it with me for the Madison GA meeting next year. It will eather be at the BLU hammer tent or at the NC ABANA tent and we will set up some time for people to try it out.

Also here is the original artical.

post-15022-0-05711300-1292084898_thumb.j

ABOUT THE WATT SCALE.doc

Why I Built the Watt Scale.doc

The Results So Far.doc

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Hey Anderson,

Are you an ex-carnie? HA! The test apparatus looks just like those sledge hammer bell ringing deals. Same principle as a tetertotter that is struck on one side that throws up a weight on the other.

Good deal man, I see a lot of useful information coming from duplications of that!

With the old steam hammers they found that a really great speed of the hammer effected the "skin" of the work more then the "core". That is why the kept using bigger and bigger hammers instead of using bigger pistons and higher velocities.

The same thing goes for knocking together timber frames, the old school method was to use a chunk of a trunk with a handy "handle branch" as a hammer to knock the joints together. Now a lot of people try to use "light" 15 lb sledge hammers swung rapidly and they mainly mar the end of the timber instead of drive it in!

All inertia is not created equally!

There is also a theory out there that as the speed of light is approached the force that is encountered is an "inertia wave", just like the "sound wave" is the sound barrier, this is a theory that I am fond of.

Firebug,

The swing is important, before I got into blacksmithing I was into boxing and found that a jab with a tight snap gave just as much force as a wind up punch, I used this when hammering, a quick snap with a loose grip basically throwing the hammer at the stock. I would lightly hold the hammer on the way down, then just before impact whip it and almost let go only starting the pivot of the hammer when the hand was 2/3 to 3/4 of the way through its stroke, like that I could heat up the stock from dull cherry to bright yellow with the hammer. I always believed that this was a very old technique, nothing new.

The detrimental leverage of the head of a heavy hammer on a long handle is exactly what gave me the idea for the counterweighted hammer, that way a heavier hammer can be used without the serious and ill effects that build up.

Caleb Ramsby

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This story may be aprocryphal, but it makes a point. Babe Zaharias was the first woman golf celeb, reaching her peak in the 1940's and early 1950's. She was asked in those days by a radio interviewer, "Why don't you swing like a girl?" Her reply, "A swing is a swing is a swing."

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got two hofi style hammers(Big Blu) for christmas. A 2.4 pounder and a 3.5 pounder. I ran to the shop first thing :lol: I have to say they are better balanced and swing better than any hammer I have. I repeatedly picked up other hammers of like weight and swung them together and the Hofi style always felt like they were lighter than the other hammer to swing. So yes, some hammers are better balanced than others. My old champion 2 pound cross peen is much easier to use and swing than my regular style 2 pound cross peens. My new 2.4 pound big blu is even better balanced and easier to swing than my 2 pound champion. Beleive me, I thought I would NEVER say that..I have reserved my judgement on these style hammers until I had actually owned and used one.I never thought it was right to judge a tool until you have used it.They are indeed well balanced hammers and feel better on my wrists and elbow to use..They may be even better with the hofi method of swinging. I wont say for sure as I havent tried it yet..

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Well today I had to draw out some 1"x5/16" bar for the reins on heavy tongs. I use hofi style hammers with a rounding face in place of the pein. I tried my 3#, 4# & 5# hammers. The 5#'er did the most work. No contest. The swing is much slower and the rhythm less than half that of the 3#'er but one blow would knock the bar down to half its width. It was noticeably more effective than the 4#'er too. No matter how fast I snapped the 3#'er down, it would not push the steel around like the 5# hammer and it took longer overall. 5# is my upper limit for a hand hammer. I dont have great accuracy with it and I only use it for the heavy moving. It's my power hammer. Then I do the finer drawing and dressing with the 3#.

Of course this is a very subjective assesment. To do it right I would have to forge a bunch of tongs half with the big hammer and half with the small hammer and record the time.

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