GD85 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Good evening/Morning. Does anyone else think "cash for clunkers" is a bad idea? Am I crazy for thinking the energy expended on building the "clunker" would all go to waste if it were driven to the scrapyard on a flatbed, broken down, and eventually melted down for scrap worth a few cents/lb? How long does it take for a negligible increase in gas/diesel mileage to be worth it to the average consumer or the environment? I daily drive a "super clunker" (so ancient, it does not even meet the definition of this economic stimulus). It is over 52 years old. It runs, stops, and drives fine. It has turn signals. With the exception of a recent event where it was stolen and tampered with, it has given me no unexpected problems. To clarify, this post is meant to remind others that while the labor and toil of the past is not obvious, it should be accounted for. Please inform me of your opinion. I may be completely off. Thank you, -Grant Edited July 24, 2009 by mod07 clearification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Just imagine if the 2nd world war hadn't happened. We would have WAY more wondrful old and well made tools floating around, not to mention all the people killed. Now they want our old cars. I listened to a spot today about the un-intended consequences of this type of program going on in Germany. Some times there is just no way to do the right thing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I saw this program as a way to save car manufacturing jobs and the methodology was to try to kill two birds with one stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Several foreign countries do it that way, the older your car the higher the registration fee. I'm driving a 1990 pickup but it has less than 130K miles so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Funny thing, My lovely wife just told me that if you were able to cash in for the most (4.5k or so) this would be more $$worthwhile than a child is, on your taxes. Do "they" think that everything will be better with their "new" ideas when they are old enough for "suicide awareness" training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 They are euthanizing the cars turned in with a silicate solution injected into the engines to seize them up. Seriously, the companies that make the solution are working double shifts to keep up. No parts are pulled, just straight to the shredder, and then off to China to be made into more ASOs. I love cars, especially old cars, and I relate this to the gun turn in programs. The person feels good for doing something "good" but it really doesn't accomplish anything. The economy is hurting, so lets run out and turn in our paid off car -excuse me "clunker" and get MORE debt for the next 3-5 years!?!??!? People would be better off turning in their new BMW's and getting a clunker. Take the BMW payments and bank them. Save money---what a concept......I am not sure where all of this ( Obama administration) is eventually going to get the country, but I don't think it will be a good place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy C Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 This is another way to give the auto companies another bailout. The government claims that it is stimulating the economy but it is only stimulating one area of the economy. If they were serious about stimulous, they would give everyone a tax credit. Not just the people who happen to have a "clunker" and want/need a new car. This $4500 dollar credit is nothing more than Washington giving back some of what they have taken. We should all have tax cuts so we can afford to spend more. But that would be to easy and give us just what they don't want us to have, freedom. In other words, I think it's a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I drive a 1987 Suburban and a 1950 Chevy 3/4 ton PU. I think I'll keep my clunkers. I was wondering, where's the "cash for crafts" program? You know, a rebate voucher so that folks can buy hand made, locally produced goods that puts some o' the money in the little guy's hands instead of mega-corps and uber-contractors. I'm still a-waitin' to be economically stimulated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 .......I was wondering, where's the "cash for crafts" program? You know, a rebate voucher so that folks can buy hand made, locally produced goods that puts some o' the money in the little guy's hands instead of mega-corps and uber-contractors..... I'm still a-waitin' to be economically stimulated! Good point. However it does not appear that the economists and politicians understand that only with improving manufacturing for internal sales as well as export will the economy improve. Factories are still shutting down. When most of the factories are gone, we will have a "third-world" economy. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divermike Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 This is just one more nail in the American coffin, seems to me there is a plan afoot, and all of the things that are very bothersome to us about what our gov't is doing, fits into a larger framework, and it all seems to be oriented towards a fundemental trashing of our constitution and a radical change in our national structure. I know it is time to pay close attention when Texas is discussing separation from the union. Stock up folks, the elite feel there are wayyyyyy to many people on the earth right now. And the resources should not be wasted on the minions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Ameling Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) Just more ... Feel Good Politics. And it only helps selected vehicle manufacturers/dealers and banks making loans. For some people it will be a good deal. More of that MAGICAL FREE MONEY the government seems to have tons of to give out to ... buy ... future votes. Most of the sales contracts on those shiny new cars have a clause written down in the fine print. It says that IF the fed gov doesn't come up with that $4500, then YOU have to cough it up or lose your shiny new vehicle! And your old vehicle is already long gone so you can't get it back - ever. Will the Bank loan you that extra $4500? Plus most States are charging sales tax on the FULL VALUE of that new vehicle - including on the $4500 the Fed's chipped in! Yeah, taxed on money you never had, but did "benefit" from. And vehicle registration/license fees are also based on the FULL VALUE of the vehicle - including that stimulus money. Ditto the full insurance coverage you need on it - especially if you have a loan on it. Just more ... messy little "details" ... of this program that sooooooo many people are calling a MIRACLE!!!!! Yes, lots of the college crowd are calling it a MIRACLE - from the Chosen One. In the end, it's just more MAGICAL FREE MONEY assistance to selected individuals and companies in the auto industry and banking industry. And people are swapping paid-off vehicles for new car payments. And how many will end up losing that shiny new car when they can't make the future payments? And bought more car than they could afford? This feels a lot like the housing boom/bust - where people bought houses they could not afford and then started losing them. And the "clunkers" are supposed to be scrapped - with the engines destroyed/blown so they can never run again. But many dealers are now saying that the old vehicles will be stripped of "parts" before the crusher gets them. So there must be some "technicality" written into that law that allows the car dealers to strip out ... spare parts ... as long as the total vehicle never runs again. Just more FEEL GOOD politics -- to buy future votes. And government manipulation of a private sector marketplace. Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands p.s. For SOME people this is a good deal. People who needed a newer vehicle and have the resources to afford one. But soooo many are falling for the ... smoke and mirrors. Or, as the old Romans stated it: Bread and Circuses! Edited August 5, 2009 by Mike Ameling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Well folks in TX have been discussing bailing out of the USA ever since they joined as far as I can tell---save for the years when they have someone in the White house, (LBJ, B I, B II). And if you think helping out the car companies doesn't do anything for anybody else you had better take Econ 101 again and review the Guns vs Butter debates on how money put into the economy at one point spreads. Frankly I'd rather see WPA and CC re-instituted and the USA infrastructure replaced and updated. I recently noticed that most of the curbs and sidewalks in our town were WPA made and they have sure been there a while wearing down! I figure out town had dirt streets before the WPA came along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) How about everyone keeps the fruit of their labor, the government does not try to "do good" but simply restrains people from initiating force against one another or from committing fraud on one another. The "Invisible Hand" has done more to stimulate economy than some bureaucrat confiscating the fruits of my labor and giving said fruits to someone else. -Doug Edited August 5, 2009 by urnesBeast grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'm actually concerned about all the after market and replacement parts and the people that make their living from doing auto repairs. This is going to make the old car and truck driver who has responsibly put hundreds of dollars a year in maintaing their vehicle in a bind. No parts and no body to install them. Not a good time to be in the auto repair business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I thought it was Cash for CLINKERS, I have a ton of those, too bad they won't give me $4500 for them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I had heard somewhere that only the Drivelines (eng and trans) must be disabled or removed, so the rest of the parts should still be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 People bought houses they couldn't afford; cause the banks HAD to make the loan. Now it's cash for a car people can't afford. where's the logic ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Exactly Pete, my truck has 243,000 miles, but you can't beat the payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 If they gave the carcass (disabled vehicle) to a blacksmith, there would be nothing left once the blacksmith got finished turning it into useful items. The community would benefit by having use items, the blacksmith would benefit by free stock, the world would benefit by the recycling. Naa, sounds too easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 What about donating them to folks back in the hills in AR who are too poor to have a car up on blocks in their front yard? Shoot I have some cousins like that! (based off a "Goon Show" radio programme on "Trash"...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Just watched a local dealers news clip. Don't know about the disabling parts they are forking them streight into a portable crusher. Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
un1tek84 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Well, anytime anyone, including the government, talks about saving energy/money in the car industry, I'm very wary. Whatever you choose to do, it's going to take up energy and it will produce waste of some sort. It's never so simple that one source has the whole story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Ya'll need to check CARS.gov and get the real facts. Yes it is a waste, but it is for cars that are worse than 18 mpg, less than 25 years old, but manufactured before 2001. There are so many hoops to jump through that prevent true clunkers from getting scrapped. Yes there are many problems with the program, but PLEASE discuss the real problems. I do agree it does not benefit the people who need the help, and it does force quality parts to be destroyed. Sorry for the rant. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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