Tom Lumpkins Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 I know this horse has been darn neer run into the ground, But the last time I made a punch a quarter of it broke off. I brought it up to yellow worked the metal then brought it up to non Magnetic, Then quenched in Oil, Then cleaned and polished and ran the color's up to Straw, and quenched in water. I would love to hear how you make your punches. I know everyone has there own method that works for them.. Please share yours.. And thanks in advance, Tom.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokshasa Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 i do the same thing as you except i use water for all the steps, dont forget that it has to be room temp or a little warmer as to not crack your peice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 What type steel were you using for the punch Work the same but harden in oil instead. Oil hardening is not as radical of change in the metal. One test to see what type of quence medium to us is to draw out the steel to a taper with or with out cut marks in it. Heat to critical temp quench in oil. Place hardened but not tempered piece in vise and tap end sticking out with a hammer to see if it will break, of course use safety gloves and eye protection. If it bends over it nneds water or salt water to get harder. If it breaks but needs a lot of force to do it it was close to the right temp hardness. Move the steel further out of the vise also to differrent areas that where different temps at quench also to see how that affected the steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Masuk Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Usually i go little past straw for tempering I had a problem with chipping chisels and snapping punches untill i let them go a bit darker even blue is alright for some uses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 One tip you might try is to use a blast of air as a quench to cool the steel - like from a compressor. I've had luck doing this with thin sectioned springs and punches that were made of high carbon. It's softer than oil but much faster tossing it on the table to normalize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglet_74 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Someone said on here once, run the colors a little further than you would think. Worst case you loose your edge or the punch deforms. Then re-heat treat and temper to a slightly lighter color. This way you don't loose material every time it breaks and you have to redo it. You only have to reshape an heat treat again. Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Most punches I have seen break are right at the line that the quench stopped at...as you quench move it up and down to widen the zone a ways...that may help..You did not say wot kind of steel or wot it was meant to do...would help to know that...You can also test sample pices treat them all a bit different and being safe break them and loot at grain struckture compare to the one you have had fail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I like a medium carbon steel for punches... 4140 is about right. IMO straw is too hard for impact tools (in high carbon steels) blue is about right (that's spring temper too). With a steel like 4140 I will often just normalize and cool... skipping a full HT. It seems to work fine for me that way... apparently enough carbon in the steel to do the job I ask of it without hardening. But if I do harden and temper I temper to blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 Thanks guy's for your input, I am using a coil spring outta a old ford. I want to try and make a blunt chissel, And center punch and a eye punch.. Just wondering , How do you all go thru the procedures. For example.. 1. Heat to high Orange. 2 . Forge the metal. 3 Bring to non magetic. then anneal. in Ash or several other way's to choose from. 4, While soft finish the detail work. 5 . Bring up to cherry red and quench. Oil or Water ???? 6. clean and polish, And run Colors.. Yellow or Straw, Blue jean blue or ??? Thanks for your input, Someone will find the info you share Very helpful, including myself.. Please share your steps and procedure's you take..Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 You first need to know wot the metal you are going to use is and what it likes for a quench. I use some air hardening steel some oil quench and almost never use a water quench,,If you do not knoow wot you have you need to do some sample testing. I do not anneal after forgeing. I forge to shape normalize then heat treat. ,,,,,The colors all depend on the steel and wot you will use it for..Punches for the most part are job specific and may have different needs...If I was center punching mild steel a rather soft center punch may last a long time for tool steels taht are annealed it may take a bit harder center punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 as noted, good to know exactly what steel you have but for me, I just use the "will it break after this" method. I have forged punches from different stuff (drop- broken allen wrenches, springs etc). I must admit that these punches are still in the rack and IIRC they were just put into service "as forged". The parent metal stands on its own strength. I don't punch a lot of holes but I DO re-size a few with mild steel sizing drifts. Sizing drifts have a sharper drawn end to go into the stock and a more blunt end to be struck with the hammer. THis second end will mushroom a bit and can be ground or cut off and re-forged- all left as forged on the sizing drifts. The punches have no handles and the business end has a long taper. I have one commercial handled 3/8 hot punch that I use for most hot punching needs. I have an 1 1/4 tapered round punch that is roughly 1/2" that I use for whatever needs may arise. Depending on the needs, I sometimes drill and then size the hole hot. Sometimes I use a slitter. All this info is not what you asked for specifically, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 (edited) shape and all heat to non magnetic and let cool in still air 2-3 times and then Bring up to non magnetic again and quench in Oil. then polish up to shiny one side of it (from one end to the other) of it and heat the middle till the hammer hitting end gets purple and the punch end get to a dark straw but keep it up a bit more so that a blue/purple colour goes down to 1-1,5cm from the tip that way it is only the end that "does the business" that is really hard and rest of it is strong. and remember to cool very often while driving a hole in hot iron, and the tool will last long. just my 2 cents. EDIT: ohh forgot I use spring steel for mine, like from old leaf springs and such Cheers DC Edited July 5, 2009 by DCL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Hi Wagonmaster. I think that tempering to straw is only for the "run the colors" method, since in that case, only the tip hits straw. Everything else is softer. I go a little past for safety. For cold chisels, blue. One of my cold chisels broke. It was made out of a spring clip that someone straightened and gave to me. It appears that it was straightened a bit cold and there were cracks where the bends were. I filed at another straightened bend, and was able to see the tiny crack going half way through the bar. Just curious These things are dangerous. I now will not use material from the bends, or just use rebar. Or, use S-7 bought off E-bay. These S-7 drops work better than pavement breaker bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Thanks for all the input. . There's some real good advice here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerkid Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Tom , as most know I do things differently LOL . When I make a punch for punch HOT steel , I dont see a need in hardening it and tempering it, cause if your punchs through something thick and forget to cool off then you just drawn your temper out of it. By the way I make my punchs out of 5/8" 5160. Thats the way I do it , may not be the politictily correct way but it works for ME , and thats what I think is important that it works . Just my .02 cents worth. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 depending on the steel I use super quench and a tmermal marker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billp Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 OK I'm a little off the subject in that I don't have advice but a comment. But, after posting a question on buying punches on the problems page. I found that to a man (or person) all the advice give me there was to make your own. With me being a novice smith learning as I work I have been pondering on just how I start on making my first punch. Now,reading through all these post and as if in search of the Holy Grail I am even more confused. This is that there seem to be a lot of detail and expertise on just how all of you go about making your punches which leaves me going "??huuu??" :confused::confused: With all this confusion going round in my head I am starting to think to print out all this information, go over it in length, practice, and buy my first 2 or 3 punches I need now then work on making all the other tools I may need in the future. As I still need to learn steel, color, tempering, so on and so forth. I will say this, I have been in the company of masters reading these post. I truly see just how much I don't know and am challenged to work at learning more. Yes there are classes coming at the first of the year but for now it's trial and error with a little help from my friends. But I will endeavor to persevere. BillP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longhunter Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Ive made a couple punchs for marking steel out coil spring and quenched in oil and tempered to a dk straw so far they are holding up well. I got my info out of Joe Delaronde book, center punch thats square tiped seems to show up better also and I seem to like it this way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I have a bunch of RR car springs. What works for me is to forge, normalize, heat to nonmag and quench in a Frydaddy full of peanut oil, I leave the punches in for two hours. My frydaddy runs around 350,365 f. I can cut cold steel with these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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