junker Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Ok guys... I know I'm probably gonna get ridaculed 4 this, but what are your thoughts on a titanium sword... and would this metal work best with a specific type of sword? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 It would be great for the wallhanger type ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 No need for ridicule at all it is an honest question. However I do not believe anyone on this forum has tried it. So the best way for an answer is to make one and let us know how it works. If there is someone on here that has direct experience they could be of big help also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Ok... well I hope some1 knows because titanium os quite expensive and i'd rather not try anything without knowing first. I just figures it'd be good because I saw a guy hit a knife made out of it with an 8ibs. sledghammer without it even slightly bending... I've just heard it doesn't hold a good edge, which doesn't make sence to me if it's so hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 there is a big difference between Hard and Tough, let me try and explain. a steel that will hold a vary sharp edge has to be rather hard, so that the fine thin blade edge will not where away to quickly, this blade that is super sharp and holds a good edge is brittle on the blade and still some what brittle throughout the whole blade, if you hit it with a hammer it will surly snap, something that is though would be a good hammer, this can take a great amount of shock stress. like hitting a hard anvil all day, but this is not vary hard, if it was it would crack and break after hitting, but its vary tough. so something vary hard will take a good edge and resist any deformation, but is brittle, something that is vary tough will take a great amount of shock stress, like hammering. im sure this fellows knife could take alot of abuse but even if sharpened greatly the edge would dull quickly to a blunt end. TI was made to take great loads and stresses that would normally bend and deform other metals, and to have great corrosion resistance, also pretty light sooo to say all this i have started seeing many divers knifes made out of TI but most divers use there knife to dig in the sand and to break coral and shells, so more of a pry bar than a knife. but in the end im sure ya can make one out of TI, just dont plan on it holding a great edge, but im sure it will look offal pretty, and I like many others would like to see it if ya make it Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Since no one has asked the most basic questions here, I will. How many swords have you made ? and Why do you wish to use Titanium for this one ? I ask this about anyone asking me about a specific metal for their blade, Because as the blade maker I know what I can get from my steels, but knowing the requirements the client has for for performance, I may agree with them OR suggest an alternate material. Most the time the steel they requested was because they heard something somewhere, not for any definitive reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 As 4 swords I have only made 2... 1 was a horrible ordeal made out of trailer steel just to see if I could shape it... it was supprisingly easy... but 4 some reason whenever you tapped it on the edge of something it would bend quite severely... and the 2nd sword was one made out of 2 lawnmower blades cut into segments and welded into a billet... this 1 snapped in half when given the same test as the 1st one... so I have no experience with the tempering or handling portion... and is there any way to weld a piece of some other metal arounf the Ti, much like the japanese katana is made, in order to have a harder edge with which to hold an edge... it seams to me that with how tough the Ti is you could use an extremely hard metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 A laminate like the old swedish mora knives. 3 layers outsides soft center hard. Bent one 90 and back with out breaking. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Junker again I am thinking that you are asking questions that no one has any experience in here to answer that has shown up. That as I see it leaves you to do the research. Let me think that you are not going to do that and suggest that you learn more about how steel moves under the hammer, learn smithing techniques until they are as easy as turning a key in a lock and forge for a few years,,then if you want to try a Ti blade give it a go. You are basically asking masters degree questions in a kindergarden class. Learn lots in your tip and keep reading everything you can here and everywhere you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamurra-e Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Hi their is a vid on You Tupe of a guy forging a Titanium Blade its nice, but you cant weld titanium the forgeweldway. Also it's not gut for swords, i think the most Ti is way to soft only the surface will get hart. Mod note: this statement is not exactly coprrect as Ti has been forge welded, see Timascus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 First off. Welcome aboard Hamurra-e, glad to have ya. If you'll click "User CP" at the top of the page and edit your profile to show your location it can make a big difference. IFI is represented by members from more than 50 countries and a lot of info is location specific. Ti. Father dealt with a LOT of exotics in his shop, we did a lot of aerospace work and there were some alloys laying around that shouldn't've been. There are ti alloys that are hard as well as tough and may indeed make decent blades. A friend in high school made a "battle axe" and BIG knife from Ti in high school shop class. It was in So. CAL too! Am I dating myself here? Anyway, Mark's axe was incredibly tough and held an edge reasonably well for an axe. It was way too light for a good wood cutting axe though. The knife was so-so, it'd take a good edge but it was fragile and tended to really gum up the stone. I have NO idea what alloy Mark bought but he said he talked to the guy who sold the stuff and picked out the one the "expert" thought had the best chance of making a good blade. Father has one piece of military Ti scrap I purloined with the idea of forging a knife, I was maybe 15 or so. I couldn't get it hot enough with the oxy-acet torch in a firebrick forge to do ANYTHING to it with a hammer on my "anvil." It in fact chewed up my hammer face pretty badly at "can't look at it white heat." Okay, NONE of that is helpful as I have ZERO idea what the alloys were, the mil-spec was classified rocket or jet engine alloy, possibly early scram jet material. No idea but I couldn't do diddly to it. Here's the useful bit of info I have for you. Be VERY CAREFUL grinding it! Many usable Ti alloys have a good percentage of magnesium in it and burns easily and fiercely. You will NOT be able to extinguish it. Also, as if that wasn't enough it makes a DANDY type of thermite in the presence of the correct oxidizer metal, much hotter than "standard" thermite. The shavings are a serious fire hazard as well, a class D Ti fire does a good non-nuclear imitation of the China Syndrom. It won't get to China, just to damp earth then it'll explode scattering burning Ti around. this is a BAD thing. So, I can't help you with the Ti sword directly but if you do take a lash at it be SUPER careful, it's very bad news if you get it lit up. Oh yeah, it lights WAY easier than standard thermite too. Play safe. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Leppo Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 http://www.forgemagic.com/bsgview.php?photo=2404&cat=H&by= This pic was posted by Randy McDaniel, he can be contacted:Home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 As 4 swords I have only made 2... 1 was a horrible ordeal made out of trailer steel just to see if I could shape it... it was supprisingly easy... but 4 some reason whenever you tapped it on the edge of something it would bend quite severely... and the 2nd sword was one made out of 2 lawnmower blades cut into segments and welded into a billet... this 1 snapped in half when given the same test as the 1st one... so I have no experience with the tempering or handling portion... and is there any way to weld a piece of some other metal arounf the Ti, much like the japanese katana is made, in order to have a harder edge with which to hold an edge... it seams to me that with how tough the Ti is you could use an extremely hard metal The company I work for bought several sheet of 1/8" Ti last week, at a cost of $13,000p/sheet (4'x10'). Hope you got deep pockets as that figures to around $325.00p/sqft! And that is for Grade 7 plate. No, you cannot weld other metals to Ti and you need to purge the stuff on every side. Best if welded in a chamber. I'm with Steve Sells and Frosty on this one. Learn how to make swords with other forgiving metals first and maybe, after making several dozen at least, you may be somewhat successfull with a Ti sword. Although I can't figure why you would want one. Reasons stated in other threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Please read the Ti fac over at swordforum.com to answer most of your questions. I have forged quite a bit of CP 1&2 Ti, been working with it about 10 years now. It's dead soft under the hammer, much softer than steel. I even forged a Ti knife for my "blacksmith eating set" along with a fork and spoon. Note that CP Ti is pretty soft, won't hold an edge; but is still a royal pain to grind! (I've cut CP Ti with a hand powered hacksaw before) The nice thing about it is it's dishwasher safe! The problem working it is that it's too soft at heat---superb hammer control is mandatory! It also absorbs gasses over time when hot becoming brittle when cold---so minimal time at temp is suggested---so a skilled fast forging is needed. I have mentioned the grinding aspects. Some of the Beta alloys can make you sick if you forge them. Since I tend to avoid the alloys I have never had any problems catching Ti on fire using charcoal, coal or propane forges. Basically a Ti sword makes a poorer sword than a plain high carbon steel ally sword so you can pay 100 times more and get a poorer sword! Every alloy has things it is good for and things it doesn't do as well as others. Unfortunately the HYPE in the media tries to make things like Ti seem like some super wonder metal and so people fall for thinking that it must be good for things it was never intended for. I have a 2"x3"x6' piece of Ti that I will probably get around to forging a part of it into a sword blade just to show people how a high carbon steel blade chops it up... Note that for nearly a thousand years the average weight of a using sword was about 2.2-2.5 pounds. Not much need for making it lighter and making it lighter tends to make it less effective too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Ok guys, advice taken... I'll definently work more with steel before I move on to anything more exotic. And just to clarify, the reasons I wanted to make a Ti sword were the weight, with Ti I figure you could make a claymore light enough to wield like a rapier, and strength, from the demontration I saw it looked like it might give the "amazing stop sign cutting and rock embede sword" mentioned in a previouse thread a run for it's money lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Stop sign cutting is a good idea. It's expensive replacing all those cut stop signs so, yes indeed STOP it! Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 By the way... would hickory make a good handle material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hickory would be ok. Osage orange or Black Locust would be better. Black walnut would work well also. (heart wood of course for all) These are my preferences but I'm not a knife or sword maker. I just like those woods for handles. They are north american with no sustainability or exploiting the rainforest, or indigenious people, issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I have made three Titanium swords They are a pain. they have a limited forging window between orange and lemon can not be ground with power tools in air because they develop micro fractures due to poor heat dissipation. They can not be soldered or brazed to a guard outside of an inert atmosphere. I used lead to cast blade and guard together for a mechanical joint. Hardness is I think 48 RC not as hard as steel. Titanium is best suited to a super fast maneuverable sword where its light weight is an asset and not a liability as it would be in a hacking / chopping blade. A rapier is a good style for Titanium. It has a very high "oh WOW!" and weird factor and a poor functionality factor. I bought scrap Titanium at $6 a pound. New price is shudder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) A light rapier can be easily moved out of the way too. Some attacks and guards profit from having some mass to the blade. But I would think that the late rapiers that were more point than edge would be the one type of sword that might possibly profit from Ti. Edited June 10, 2009 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kashmire Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 given the properties of Ti, and the lack of edge holding abilities. i would suggest, if you really wanted to make a sword w/Ti, a blade for staged combat. it can take the abuse... it Ti ! and at that point you wouldn't put an edge on it anyway. just a slight taper to give the illusion of an edge. its ability to hold up to a "live steel" performance would probably depend highly on the tempering techniques used. Ive done staged combat for several years and used many weapons that where and where NOT intended for that purpose. id be interested to see how it would hold up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason0012 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 The working peculiarities of Ti aside , I would think the low weight of a Ti blade would make render it some what ineffective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurstan Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 isn't titanium bad for edge holding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 I made a ti sword, but only as a process and a challenge to figure how to do it as there was no way for me to do any welding. Now I did this as a strictly art blade. After it was completed I donated it to BGCM for their auction and for publicity I did a YouTube video showing the blade and used modeling clay to show the process. So far over 300,000 people have viewed the video. That's amazing to me. There was a lot of controversy over it, too. Lots of comments. So then I did a second video of actually forging the titanium to make a knife. One reason I did this video was because of so many comments about the sword, saying that ti is too brittle. I don't know where they got that from, so I put the blade in the vise and hit it with my sledge hammer and watched as the hammer just bounced off. I've been forging titanium for about 25 years and love it for its texture from forging. It's tougher than stainless while forging and when it starts to cool down the hammer will all of a sudden just bounce off. Knife or sword wise, as has been stated, it's very tough, but not good for an edge. BUT the edge has a sawtooth to it so works well that way. Divers use ti knives because of the lack of weight, it can cut a rope and it's tough for prying. Oh, and it's corrosion resistant. I hope this and the videos answer some of your questions and maybe bring up some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 You can't laminate or forge weld titanium? Don't tell my buddy Tom Ferry that! He makes pattern-welded titanium all the time. http://www.tomferryknives.com/timascus.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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