forgemaster

Hey Farmweld Let Des know I'll await his call/email with interest. Cheers Phil

Hey guys Is there no news from tamworth these day? Drewy not up to something interesting? Come on guys, give us an update on what you guys are doing.

Hey Farmweld Thanks for that, its nice to know the history of the machinery that you use day to day, one of our casual employees runs a 40cwt clear space that as far as he knows was in france during WW2. He'd love to know more but that's as far as it goes. The other firm he works for bought it as a recon hammer from Massey, apparently Massey brought it back from France after the war, (the stories it could tell). One thing though the hammer I bought is not classed as a helve hammer, it is an inslides massey, a helve hammer has a beam arrangement on it and is essentially a mechanical hammer. An inslides is still a pneumatic hammer. Hans I always reckon a fair price is $1000.00 per CWT, it can go up or down from there depending on the condition of the hammer, as A O'C said see if it will turn over a bit at least. The 7 clear space I recently had delivered was free when I 1st looked at it but the crank ended up full of water by the time it was delivered here, with a bit of work I got it to turn over, though with the bigger hammers having ball bearings on the reduction gearing the bearings will now be stuffed, just as well I only got it as a spare parts hammer. Phil

So Des Mumme is not Mumme Tools (which is still going as far as I know) then, and it was Des who owned this hammer I have bought? If that is so can you ask him if he has any history on this hammer, where he got it from, what it was doing there, etc. its nice to know the history of my hammers, (just for my own interest). Phil

Hi Farmweld I dont think the other hammer sold, could be wrong. I'm surprised no one else bid on this hammer, cheap for what it went for, even for spares. I would have thought Mumme would have had enough big hammers anyway to make bolts. We're hoping to put this one in toolish. It may take the place of our 1cwt in slides, which has a broken rod which manufacturing a new rod has long been a job for a rainy day, just haven't seemed to get a rainy enough day.

Much rather be young than getting older every day, don't wish your life away young Jake, On to hammered, the Moon is ringing me nearly every day now to pick my brain, may be looking like we will have a moon made forging tractor (manipulator) for hammered this year, he's been playing with plywood cutouts of the grab system to try to work it all out. Go The Moon! Phil It has also been decided that due to the amount of injuries happening at Hammered especially late at night and after dinner, that all hand hammers will have to be fitted with a safety guard. I have attached a photo below.

Dayboro Brisbane is where she lays, for now. But we should be able to get er back ere wit nary a drop o rum touchin me lips. (I don't know where that came from its not even "talk like a pirate day")

Just won another hammer on ebay, a 3cwt Massey in slides, only down fall its a B model, rotary valve jobby, dates from 1923 so I am told by the seller, Oh well that means another road trip.

While on the subject of hammer guards and safety etc, and while looking through my files for those photos I also found a photo of a temporary disposeable hammer guard/safety shield for hand hammers too. (This is to be taken with a grain of salt too guys, I'm not being serious here, just made me laugh seeing the photo thought I'd share)

Hey John Its cool, just didn't want the OP to think we were hijacking his tread for Non steam hammer purposes, (perish the thought). I don't really want to know how these caps work (although what you said is interesting) I was interested to see if these were an off the shelf item somewhere, this hammer in Europe has almost an identical looking cap on it. One day when I have the time, I'll pull that cap off and have a look inside of it. When this thing was in operation and when the hammer driver let the hammer go to the top of stoke in between jobs, there was an audible clang as the rod hit whatever it was in there. The guys that worked under it said that to get a longer fuller harder blow they would actually drive the rod up into the buffer in order to get a run at it so as to speak, (sort of like a forging version of an Evil Kenevil ramp)

As far as I can see the addition of the buffer top was to allow the removal of the trigger, which the hammer head would hit if it was brought up too fast, if the trigger was not there the hammer would/could smash into the top cap and also probably the gland at the bottom of the cylinder. The problem with the trigger was when the hammer would hit it, the control handle which the trigger was attached to would normally nearly break the hand of the hammer driver, he'd let go of the handle and the hammer would go out of control.

To get this thread back onto steam hammers after it had been rudely hijacked by owners of massey clear space owners, we own a steam/converted to air hammer which I bought from the steel works here in Newcastle. As you will see from the photo attached it has a non standard top cover, which houses a buffer which stops the rod from smashing into the the top cover (if there was a std top cover there). All the larger hammers at the steelworks (BHP) had this buffer fitted, it has 2 lines going to it, one from the incoming supply pipe, and the other comes from or to the exhaust pipe. My question is are these an "off the shelf item" or are they a modification the BHP has manufactured themselves, I have seen photos of hammers in Europe with what looks to be the same thing fitted. Anyone know? Also can these buffers operate with steam as well as air, or is it just air only, the hoses going into to buffer are actually hydraulic hoses, biut it is air which is going through them. Phil

Thank you Patrick A while back there was a discussion on here where various posters maintained that after forging if you were to normalise or heat treat all grain flow would be lost so why bother about forging to induce grain flow. After your explanation which is heaps better than mine, I will now have reference to something I can throw back at any non believers. Phil

yeh we have blown the dip stick out occasionally, fixed it by going and swapping the older style cap out of our spare 5, no dipstick but no blowouts either. We don't have a treadle guard, probably should, its something we talk about, we have dropped stuff on it over the years, everyone just stands back until the offending item falls onto the floor. Last time it happened the ringing saddle ended up wedged over the edge of the top die. The main problem we have figured with having a guard is when we use single blow with the pedal we drive with our heel and sit our toes on the edge of the anvil base cap, having a guard there will stop us doing this, needs some thought put into the design I feel before we go down this road.

Thanks John I'll hit the moon up for it.

One aspect I have always looked at is who is providing the insurance, are you providing your own liability etc or is the organiser, (if it is the organiser, make sure it is well and truly up to date and applicable to what you are doing). If you are providing your own insurance make sure your insurer knows that you are doing an "outside" demo and make sure you charge to recover the costs of your insurance along with everything else. By the time I normally factor in everything from pulling the shop to bits, packing up stuff to take, getting there, getting accom, I reckon it would be cheaper just to send the organisers a cheque for $200.00 and stay home, I reckon I'd come out better off. Phil

Look at what electricians or mechanics or plumbers charge per hour, around here its about $120.00 per hour per man, they dont have to have forges/furnaces burning up fuel, power hammers which need proper foundations, welding sets, oxy sets, etc etc, mechanic basically a shed and a set of ring spanners (yes I know it takes more than that but you get the point) electrician, a pair of pliers a multimeter, and a screwdriver. They have a lot less plant than us and they still go broke charging way more than us. Don't sell yourself too cheap.

You often see written in books that steam hammers are so much better than pneumatic hammers because they can do single blow, can squeeze and have a lot better control, OK size for size weight for weight they may pack a bigger blow, mainly because the driver can if necessary really flog the blows into the hammer, but there is a trade off, you either need a boiler or fairly large air comp and res. A Massey can be started with the push of a button, and be ready for forging with in about 10 seconds, when we used the steam hammer it was a case of light off the boiler,wait for 45 minutes to get up steam, warm up the pipes, warm up the hammer, etc etc couple this with needing to get the boiler certified each year, and needing to have someone with a boiler attendants cert to run it, and it takes some sort of fuel to run the boiler. Even with using compressed air you have to wait for it to pump up etc etc. With a Massey Clear Space you have a hammer that will clamp/squeeze give a definite single blow with a seperate movement of the control lever needed for each blow, they can be easily be put into drive (automatic blows) from single blow without having to put the dies together, and return again to single blow without having to lower the tup onto the bottom die. I'll have to see if I can bet hold of some of the footage of the Moon and I making the hook at "Forging in July" at Eveleigh under the 7cwt clear space. That footage shows how the hammer can be used as easily as a steam hammer for jobs which the old guys would say can only be performed with a steamy. I'd take one Massey size for size over 4 other types of air hammers/steam hammers pnuematic hammers any day. Phil

Looking forward to hammered too brother.

Its a Massey, all massey pneumatic hammers can do that, thats why we all love them so much. They have an air reservoir to facilitate single blow operation. The in slides model can also do single blow but I don't think they had a res, I could be wrong. You're a game man John, with that flywheel whizzing round just behind you, when we first put in our 5 we forged a new top block for it without having the guard on the flywheel, made the hammer driver keep his wits about him. Phil

Hi All As we have just replaced a turn of packing in our 5cwt and I have the spare packing sitting here with me now I figured I'd give the appropriate tech info for the packing that we now use. It is made by a firm called James Walker (in Aust anyway) style is "folded tape rectangle", material is GHN/KC Proofed Kevlar, size is 15mm (3 ply), James Walker part No. is FJFTRE0012K7 I know we need 2 lengths of 800mm long tape to replace the 2 runs of packing in our 5cwt (800mm allows for a little bit of a trim to suit). Differnent size hammers will need a different length of course but the size should be the same. If you have a lot of wear on the hammer rod or in the gland you could also consider 4 ply (still 15mm wide though) This packing that we have just replaced (only 1 run needed replacing, the bottom run) has been in this hammer since Jan 2009 and this hammer cops a flogging almost every day. The price I have been quoted is about $100.00 AUD per metre ex GST Hope this info is of use to any Massey owners. Phil

Heh heh heh was wondering when these photos would surface. Price is $2000 each per set unpainted, painted yellow $3000.00, any other colour price on application!

yeh Moon is getting some toys ready, he rings me every other day to tell me how its going or to pick my brain about something, its a tough job but someone has to do it.

Joe Just get some 20mm A300 or A250 what ever they stock, most of the run of the mill steel suppliers around Australia would not know a 5160 from a XK1345 or an En36A from a 17crnimo6. If you want to get special steels try Atlas, interlloy, Global or Bohler. Other than that most of the time you just need "mild steel" to start with to muck around and have a go with. If you ask for imperial sizes you will likely be sold bright shaft which is more expensive than mild and not what you want. Aus steel are metric as standard. Normally 6 8 10 13 14 16 20 22 24 27 30 33 36 40 dia are the standard sizes for round bar. Have fun Phil

Hey Adroo what do you reckon for price, you have a better idea than me for prices of these hammers?