brianbrazealblacksmith

Alright, Dave! Glad to hear you're passing on the knowledge. You will learn even more from trying to communicate forging. I hear you on the anvil. I don't let too many people strike on my Henry Wright anvil.

Very good post, Mr. Powers!

Peacock, Do you remember when Tom called you up and asked if it was possible to punch this way? I had punched a square hole in a 1 3/4 inch cube that I made in the power hammer class that William Bostas taught that day with a square punch that I made out of mild steel. The punch was 1/4 inch at the end, and I had to cool it frequently, but I punched a small plug out, and the punch held up. Tom asked me why I didn't use H13 or S7 because he had plenty of that. I told him that I was trying to prove a point. The geometry of the punch has more to do with the amount of work done and the proprer use than the need for super steel. Tom said he called you and said that you said that it might be possible.

No, no, no. There are some good points in the last post, but some other point are totally incorrect. Sorry, man, it's all about the metal to me. In the first post I made, I included the "Slitter Geometry" thread. In that 12th post it has a picture of 2 different holes punched with the slitting punch that is pictured and drifted with the diagonal slot opening drift for that sized slot which is also pictured. One of the holes is left as drifted and the other on the diagonal has been hammered as stated to square it up and bring it back to plane from the hollowing out you will get from any punch or chisel, so there is no need for upsetting. One of these days I am going to get High Speed Photogrophy and show the whole world what I've been talking about. Lyle, and everyone out there that has punched holes this way, tell them what you see!

GregDP, I have made a punch and drift before but only to make a handled punch for making hammers before I had a handled punch to punch a slot for hammers, and, yes, it was a sacrificial punch and a shorter drift. I think you may be missing my point about using a slot punch instead of a chisel for making a slot. The picture that I referred you to has a slot punch that looks like a slitting chisel like Hofi uses, but it is not used the same way. A chisel only works like a chisel when it is backed, so when you use a chisel like the books say by driving it 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through and then driving it the rest of the way from the other side; it does not cut. It only stretches and forms a bubble until it can stretch no more, and then it bursts the bubble. That is why every hole done that way with thick stock has cold shuts inside the hole, and with thin stock there is always some stretched raggedy material. Punches work better but not flat punches. Flat punches have too much surface area contact. The punches I showed in "Slitter Geometry" are not like any I have ever seen or read about, but they work better for square, rectangular, round, or slot punching. They are just not conventional Knowledge yet. Reread the thread and try it, and if you have any questions, just ask.

GregDP, There is an old thread in "general Discussion" titled "slitter Geometry" that shows the tooling for slitting and drifting a square hole on the diagonal on page 1 on the 12th post. You could make a tool that would slit and drift, but I wouldn't advise it unless you only intend to make one hole. When you drift, you don't normally slam it through from one side. You get the drift out after a few hits when the hole starts to "shadow", and then drift through the other side after the heat wicks back. Your punch or chisel end would be damaged in the act of removing it from the hole by tapping it on your anvil or turning it over and tapping it out with your hammer. Slitting chisels do not work as well as stitting punches. I know most people who slit and drift use chisels and that the books say to use chisels, but until you try the punches you'll never know why they work better unless you use reason to figure it out. Don't believe everything you hear or read and don't belive me! I've been making and using these types of punches long before I got around other blacksmiths, and I've tried the other ways (chisels and flat punches). There is no doubt which works best from my experience, and I have experienced all those ways. I'd like someone to show me better ways, but so far nothing. http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/10211-slitter-geometry/page__hl__%2Bslitter+%2Bgeometry__fromsearch__1

We used 1/4"x2" square tubing for that vice stand.

. Karen and I are in the North Georgia mountains right now not far from you, and I didn't bring my vice this time. I am not sure what degree the legs are at, but they are not 8 degrees like the anvil stands. The vice has the post, so the legs can be splayed out more. They are not very far out there as to be a tripping hazard. I'll try and remember to measure when I get back home and get back with you.

Aaron, Bring your hammers this time, all of them, and don't forget your Brent Bailey sledge. We may put you to work.

David, why did you mention hardening them?

Hey, Aaron. You can send me one of those in exchange for the pictures of the hammer we made for you, and we'll call it even. I'd prefer to have the one in the second picture.

I've been doing alot more hex tapering, hex bars, and hex balls since I last posted on this thread and had alot of people who have been here for classes do it too. It is quite a bit more efficient than going square, octagon to round, and if you leave it hex, it is very appealing. Here is a video that we did a while back doing a hex taper and ball:

I believe they used to cut a tree down and mount the anvil to the stump with the roots in the ground and then build the shop around that. Other than that, you could bury a stump 3 to 6 feet in the ground, and that would sufice. A stump on the ground or concrete is going to move and you will loose work to the vibration no matter how big your anvil is. You may be able to mount some brackets to that stump where you could anchor into concrete or the ground.

Yes, I think most people that forge in public have encountered that, like when they think you are "cheating". Forging or blacksmithing is a technique, and those other things are different techniques, and when you are composing something with your hands, it is all "fabrication/ metal working".

divermike, The 3D horsehead that I make is done with exact techniques just like the other things I have posted. I employ half hammer faced blows with a rounding hammer or large fuller over the near and far side sharp 90 degree edges of an anvil held at three different exact angles, and it is evident by the dimential divisions in the material chosen. I also use bottom fuller on top fuller or rounding hammer on horn to check back the lateral side growth caused by the starting half hammer faced blows over then near and far side of the anvil. The horsehead that you made above is made with other techniches that I do not employ. Try the techniques that I have shown and you will see better results. If you start with flat stock it will enable you to understand the proportions better when you go to round or square stock. I check the lateral growth back on the flat dies or anvil face and flat face of my hammer when I use flat stock. I can forge the 3D horse with just my hand hammer from 1 inch and under stock. I use a striker with larger stock, and I have made them small enough to fit on rings and bracelets with my hand hammer. I am attaching a video of the flat horse, but there are drawings and pictures of the 3D horse in the thread I started back in 2009 titled "Animal Heads". I use the same techniques to do most of my forgings, and they are definately worth trying out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzEtTREbI40&list=UU5Nn5dwrvBlzKYBOivIS5VA&index=14&feature=plcp

Everyone has made good points, but I'll add my 2 cents and stay simple. Heat, hold, and hit is all forging is about. Yes, do not go too far too fast, and stop when you are there. Know where you are going before you start, but you can also learn by "banging away". Just observe what the effects of every choice is so you do learn. With reason, knowledge, and understanding you can see how precise and simple forging is. To move metal you need a forgeable heat. Staightening and planishing can be done at the lower temps. Holding your metal under or over your dies or surfaces should be precise and exact. Hitting the metal with the best choice of dies or surfaces will enable you to stay at forging temperature longer and hold lighter and better. Making good choices and understanding what you can accomplish with each heat, hold, and hit will enable you to learn to choose the appropriate material for the job at hand. Then all you have to do is heat your material up, hold it under the dies, and hit it, and it will practically make itself. The creative or artistic aspects are always present in each individual to express at will, but the choices to forge those expressions are elementary and limited to the techniques availiable to choose from when talking about "forging in it's purest form" as was asked in this thread.

Thank you, Shawn! It was a pleasure working with you! It is very rewarding for me to have someone that grasps the information and is able to execute it so well. We also learned alot from you. Shawn was the first master bladesmith that we have had here. Knowing that he understood and can execute the information gives me confidence that he will share this, and in doing that will learn more and help others. Brian P.S. Shawn, I went ahead and drew a tang and ricosso on that last point you drew out of the 1"x 1/4". We didn't cover it in class, but just like the 2 sided taper with round or square stock or the tongs, you can draw the tang and isolate the ricosso with rectangular stock without having to cut and turn it around. Just remember to get the near side down and control the reverse taper. Karen says thanks, too!

And what about starting a coal fire with coke? You don't start a wood fire with charcoal and then cover it with wood and cause alot of thick smoke, so why do most smiths still create alot of smoke when they light their forge? First you start some kind of kindling, then add green coal to the sides without covering the fire so the flame will burn the volitiles and not cause the thick smoke. Smoking out your neighbors is just rude!

What about the first one I heard?" Don't hit on iron cold; that is what will make it break, or you will go to hell or wet the bed". What makes metal break is hitting improperly, like hitting out of square and creating a rhombus and causing it to shear, or hitting the edges of a lateral draw and then moving thicker material towards the edges where it can do nothing but rip apart just like pinching the edges on pie dough and rolling it out. It can do nothing but rip apart.

Vegetable oil on terri cloth (towel material) applied at a black heat makes a nice durable black finish almost like seasoning cast iron pots.

Thanks, Roger! Yes, what Roger said.

I like it, Mike! Using the half-hammer faced blow on the near side to create the brow line really sets it off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzEtTREbI40&list=UU5Nn5dwrvBlzKYBOivIS5VA&index=12&feature=plcp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aO6BPD5-1E&list=UU5Nn5dwrvBlzKYBOivIS5VA&index=6&feature=plcp Here are some videos that can help. The animal heads are similar to making tongs. The dies or surfaces that you choose are half of your round top die over your near and far side edges of a sharp 90 degree for hand and, or sledge work. For power hammer work, you just substitute side sets for the 90 degree corners so that all your holds will be horizontal.

Jim Austin made that video. I am not worried about creit given to me about the tooling that he is using that I helped him out with or the tooling that he made by himself after we spent some time together forging, but what he did with that knowledge and understanding is his. Jim Austin made that axe, and he did an excellent job, and that is his property.

Nicely put Alec.