anvil

I'd use your band saw and hand water for cooling as needed I would think its a pretty safe bet to assume lengths like that are annealed other than, perhaps the ends. Try a cut with a hand hacksaw and see what happens. I just saw Thomas said this as well.

Thomas, high carbon wrought iron is a term i've never encountered before. wrought iron that approaches, but doesnt exceed, 3 points carbon is, i guess, high carbon wrought iron.. Mild steel is a low carbon steel. It has alloys added when made. These alloys take it out of the relm of wrought iron. Wrought has no added alloys. therefor mild steel and wrought iron are two different critters. Any "iron", now or then, for whatever reason with 3 points or greater carbon becomes, by defintion, steel. Anything less is wrought iron. Tool use has nothing to do with the material used. Be careful of those gnats and camels.

i had a similar experience. I offered my community a donation of some ironwork, a walkway arch for the new park. A few months later they upped the antie to a 24' arch that would span a road, far beyond my abilities. I took the project to Francis Whitaker for a masters workshop or whatever he wanted. He agreed with the rider that I had to have approval for the city and all other logistical details. It took me nearly a year to muddle thru the local politics and I finally got the city counsel approval. It became our cemetery entryway arch. A few years after completion I was approached by a young lady and she asked if I was the one responsible for the arch. She thanked me profusely and said her husband and daughter were buried there. She went on to say just how much the arch meant to her and how much it raised her spirits when visiting her family. Her words still have a major affect on me.

low, medium and high carbon steels are defined by their carbon content. Heres the numbers: "To recap, steel is often categorized according to its carbon content. Low-carbon steel consists of less than 0.30% carbon. Medium-carbon steel consists of 0.30% to 0.60% carbon. And high-carbon steel contains more than 0.60% carbon. As the carbon content of steel increases, it becomes stronger and harder. At the same time, it also becomes less ductile." https://monroeengineering.com/blog/low-vs-medium-vs-high-carbon-steel/ So mild steel, generally called A36, has 0.29% {2.9 points of carbon} carbon 1 point of carbon is 1% of 1%, so 1 point of carbon = .1%. It is at the very high end of low carbon steels. Wrought iron has less than 3 points carbon as well. The difference between wrought and A36 is the added alloys in A36. One of the main differences in wrought iron is the carbon content. The lower the carbon content, the less quality. Wrought Iron is refined by forge welding. This removes other impurities. These percents of carbon are determined "by weight". So when the impurities are removed, the weight decreases appreciably, but, with proper technique, no carbon is removed. Thus the % carbon, by weight increases. old Wagon tires are often wrought iron and usually low quality. You can, in your shop refine these by stacking multiple pieces and forge welding them back together, the same as you would do when making pattern welded steels. Low carbon steels are the go to for general forging. Medium carbon steels are considered Tough steels because they tend to not deform or chip when used. Deformed means mushrooming, or rolled edges. So they are great for hammers, hot punches etc. High carbon steels are used for general cutting tools like knives, sheers etc. They tend to hold an edge, but if bent or misused will tend to break or chip. Added alloys basically enhance these characteristics. Simply said they make tough steels tougher, hard steels harder with less fracturing or chipping, and hot work tools handle heat better.

Nice!

I thought of that as a solution as well, but discarded it for two reasons. First and most important, even with a good paint job is that the sockets will collect moisture and rust out. Second is that with a round socket, they would have a tendency to twist out of plane over time, and that is not the case. My solution was similar to Thomas, but I think his is more likely. They don't have to be welded or joined in any way in the back. The pass thru could be slit and drifted square. Next the backside is cut and opened up. It is then treated like a collar and closed back with the edges over lapped or butted against each other. This, I think describes what Thomas stated. Alas, the back is hidden and most likely hidden by paint as well.

Lol, considering where this post started and where it is now, I think that's the road taken here.

Cormacktim, theres nothing suspicious about that. What they ask is common for most all that comes from the playstore. Those permissions primary use is to enable auto updates. If you are concerned, you can do two things. You can shut off the permissions after downloading and/or you can disconnect from the internet and it will still work. If you go to "whats new", then to the bottom and click on "App permissions", read the bottom.

Lol, I picked up on that when I read your post. I dont think I've ever mentioned stand up straight or your anvil is too low. Certainly i've mentioned hammer control and plenty of other bla, bla, bla. On occasions I even may have got a begrudging "well, you may be right, but,,, . Makes it worth while hearing that, even on rare occasions, from a self professed " I'm self taught..." kind of a person. Too bad for his bad attitude. That blows the whole deal right there. But hey, less we forget, I always compliment your work. You made a comment about me a while back, and its very true. Also, its been a major frustrating point that 've not been able to change,, until a few days ago. Thats that you would rather watch someone work than read their words. Its been a major frustration that I have only been able to "forge" words and show pics. Even tho my new shop is not completed, I had my first day in the flame two days ago. A first after 3 years and being 74 years old. enough said, I've got a long road ahead of me. Like they say, no pain, no gain. Your competition was what it took, along with a nearly done shop to get in my shop. Im not into competing with others, but I'm terribly competitive with myself. When I heard the parameters, I figured, back a few years, I could do a 30" taper from 10" of half square, no dings, champfered edges and done within 3 or 4 heats,, around 10 minutes. All I had handy was a piece of 5/8" square, so time to walk the walk. Well, after 3 heats i got about 6" growth, a coyote ugly taper and I was whipped! No doubt! So, I've set up my tripod with the adapter you sent me for my smartphone (A Big Thanks for That!) and will try 10" of half square next. I know where I was, and I know where I am, so the deal is to see how long it takes for those two points to become one. I also found a dozen or so AVI files I made when I was going to do forging vids. I have a good in its time digital tape camera and filmed me building my dream shop. I'd forgotten I had converted ones on making masonry tools, and the stone work I did. Lol, I looked pretty good working at the anvil then toolmaking and nothing like what it felt like a few daze ago. Dang, its tough when the reality of the past clashes with the reality of the moment!

Things take their own time in the Land of Enchantment and it may take real faith in magic to get done, but the feeling of elation is real! All done but the shouting! Congrats!

Thomas nailed it. Its the simplest way.

Good one, Thomas, Thats my guess as well. Do you have any history on the old masters in your country?

Congrats! sounds like you had a great time and learned a lot. Cant beat the people you worked with. I'd of critiqued the jerk for forging out of balance. Never trust someone at a blacksmithing conference who didn't bring a hammer.

Did I say something thats not already been said?

I'd radius your edges from 3/8" at the step to zero a couple of inches in front of your hardy hole. This gives you a number of good radii to use when forging and gets rid of the chips.

Do I have this right? You dont have much experience as a blacksmith, Your shop setup has been critiqued a poor, Your shop is pretty narrow, You dont know how to use these tools, and now you have a major expense trying to create a proper setup for one, but not all, of some rather large tools. I don't like to be negative but your project creates a real sinking feeling in my gut, you might say.

Navy, huh? I was an airdale '67-71'.

A Santa Fe blacksmith named Russ Sweider took that to an extreme and made dozens of tools for his hand pneumatic hammer. His unforgettable demo was making a dragon out of 1-1/2" square stock in one heat. This included scales, eyes, teeth, ears, the works. Lol, I stayed with Tom Joyce that night and he did the same dragon head in one heat with only his hand tools. His classic remark was "I think power tools running at 1700 rpm just make you think you are working faster!" You can make a saddle to go over your anvil face out of 1/4"x4" or so. Use this when doing any cutting or punching to protect both your tool and your anvil.

I appreciate your input. And sometimes a little nitpicking is necessary. And a thanks. I did think of liquidus as a state, not a temp. Progress. My definition above comes from a 40 year memory. I stress that i make no claim that my memory of its source is valid. So the first thing I did was do a google search for liquidus. Google corrected my spelling and a dropdown said "definitions". I read a few and one basically stated what you say in your definition. Another supported my memory. Both had what appeared to have good references. More confusion. Im going to quote that definition because it does a better job than I can do. Because they focus on glass and liquidus, if you click on the highlighted "alloy", you will see that steel alloys are included. My next step is to find the liquidus temp for an alloy I'm familiar with and see where it lies in the color charts. This isnt a major issue, its just a curiosity for me and thanks, JHCC, for your input. "above" and "co-exist" are the key words here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidus "The liquidus temperature, TL or Tliq, specifies the temperature above which a material is completely liquid,[1] and the maximum temperature at which crystals can co-exist with the melt in thermodynamic equilibrium. It is mostly used for impure substances (mixtures) such as glasses, alloys and rocks." I recognize your humor. My answer to that is my work is architectural in nature, not as a tool smith. I make needed tools for me and my projects. I don't normally sell tools. For this reason when I make a tool, I always review my sources for temps, times, and techniques. My primary sources are a Carpenter Tech manual, Uddaholm Steel spec sheets and my newest, The Heat Treater's Guide Companion. My basic assumption with these sources is that their primary purpose is to give me all the needed data needed to maximize their product. For this reason, if they don't list any special situations, the spec sheets apply. As an example I will use O1 and W1/1095. With O1, in these three sources they do not list any special situations concerning crossection or quench medium. For those who dont know, the O stands for oil quench, and the W stands for water quench. In these three sources, there is no indication that O1 or O2 can be air hardened in any crossection. It doesnt mean you cant, but certainly ought to explain just why " hardening in air has a history of surprising folks". There should be no surprise. You are not hardening it, you are normalizing it. On to W1. two of the three sources state quite clearly that W1 can be oil quenched in small crossections. They indicate that this will aid in preventing warping and stress cracking. Carpenter Tech states "may" and does not define "small". Uddaholm steel basically leaves out may and says "can". The heat Treater's Guide does not state oil at all. However for 1095 they do indicate using oil for .19" crossections. Considering that W1 and 1095 are very similar, an oil quench for small(.19") crossections MAY be used. Because these sources do list these specific conditions for these steels, and they list other specific situations in their specs for other steels, I believe my assumption is valid for any crossection.

You are prolly right. I'll put the foxfire books as arriving later. I'll add Weigers three books and Practical Blacksmithing as other early influence. Still got all of them

I still got you on the logic. And I'll settle for your second one. If A exists at temp x and B exists at temp x, then both A and B can exist at temp x. It cant be either/or for the same material. Beyond this, I agree with your statement. RTB, it definitely depends on what you read. Thats why I brought up Verhoeven. I've discussed the 1" crossection deal ad infinitum. You may find actual steel spec sheets from a steel producer that qualify their stats with anything similar to NOTE: these specs are for crossections 1" or larger, but its not the norm.. I have seen manufacturer/producer specs that give alternatives for both times, temps and quench for such things as "smaller" including 3/8" or 1/2" or 1/4" or 5/16" sizes for the general steels. we all use. All of which fall into the parameters of knifemaking. I have found specs from steel retailers, not manufactures, that support what you are saying. I believe this is a retailer CYA deal so when a guy who knows very little cracks a blade when quenching, they are covered. Also there is plenty on the internet that supports your statement. Its pretty common knowledge, for instance that if you want to be safe when using high carbon steels like 1095/W1, in thin crossections, then quench in oil. However, if you learn how to temper these same steels in water, its not a problem. I believe when doing this there is a tradeoff between hardness and toughness.

They were my two literary start into blacksmithing as well. I think the fox fire books were about the same time. However I got grabbed around that time by "The Gunsmith of Williamsburg" vid and the idea of making a flintlock rifle real bad. Its still on my to do list.

Got me pegged as one who knows how it works in the forge, and trying to learn about the fiddly bits found in books. It took me at least 3 semesters to get thru first year chem. Turley gave a very short but very concise class on metallurgy. He finished it saying if you want more of this,,, RTB(read the book). Basically he gave me the confidence to deal with most any modern steels as long as I had a spec sheet and do it in a coal forge, with water or oil, and a bucket of lime. It's served me well. 4 or 5 years ago when smithing began on facebook I saw "fiddly details" coming from the knife guys that seemed to contradict my experience and very limited book learning. Definitely i got a particular body part buried deeply in the dirt when I presented my traditional oriented views. I also realized it was more due to semantics than anything else. Mine based on that of the traditional smith, they more on contemporary metallurgy. So I decided to follow Turley's advice,,, RTB. Thus Verhoeven enters my life with me fighting chem 101 every step of the way all over again. Dang'd terms! This is just to let all know that my knowledge of this is slim and basically I'm trying to fit what Turley said, And I accept, into this conversation. My conclusion up to now with this post is that what JHCC is saying is what I believe. However we have a semantics and, perhaps, a logic problem. You make this statement and one similar for solidus. I believe I understand where you are going, but, I believe you are using faulty logic. "but the minimum temperature at which ONLY a liquid can exist" If this is true, then a solid cannot exist at this temp because ONLY a liquid can exist at this temp. Your statement(s) are logical if and only if you remove the word "ONLY". If you do this, we are saying the same thing. "Thats my logic, and I'm sticking to it" Lol, a good line for a high tech country western song! I also believe,as you stated above and depending on material, perhaps that there is a single temp where this happens or a temp band where this happens. If its a single temp, then depending on the mass, and keeping temp constant, assuming we are on a rising heat, there will be a time where the solid and the liquid are in equilibrium. If there are differing temps for solidus and liquidus, then depending where you are in the temp zone, will determine the proportions of solid and liquid. If I were a in college and a metallurgist, this would be my hypothesis for an experiment. I also agree with Thomas. In this day and age, Traditional metallurgy got left behind. Thus you can "only forge weld low carbon steel". And thats why there isnt much modern info from the contemporary steel industry on forge welding. I also think that when I was dealing with Carpenter Tech(tool steel producer) as a traditional smith dealing with their product, they asked me questions about heat treating and forge welding as a blacksmith. We came away knowing that the basic principals of the past applied to both of us and that I could successfully deal with their product as a traditional smith. No, I sling, tap, or wire brush all that gradoo off my steel when i leave the fire. Generally there's none of that when I do the FW. I stated earlier that I could still see the swirling look at the anvil, but I will amend that and say I've most likely never looked at that stage of the game. I will say that with a drop the tongs weld, if you dont pay attention and touch the top piece to the bottom piece, they will stick together. So make sure you are where you want to be when they touch. Turn into slush is a poor term, even tho its what I used. When you have a reducing fire and are at a lemon yellow, And your fire color and steel color match, the bar looks and feels solid to the eye. This May be a state called liquidus and this May be a Mix of both solid and liquid. When you strike with a hammer, the liquids flow and bond. Maybe not. Other than scale and perhaps a bit of time I dont think material is wasted until you see sparks.

I created some confusion here. Wrong thread. It would have made far more sense in the thread that was on mechanical twists. I rarely use tubing. For me, I use it on lighting. Its far easier to "upset"(actually drift) the end of the tubing and FW in a piece of upset solid steel that I can forge and taper far easier and quicker. Tubing is easy to gently scroll and makes a great chase to hide wiring in. And yes, thick wall seamless is my go to. Tapering a short bit is doable, but I would not attempt a 30" taper from 1"to 1/4". Nor would I take 2 30" lengths of 1" angle iron, trim 4 flats then weld and grind 2 30" welds. Its far easier and quicker to forge steel, silicon bronze, or naval brass to those dimensions even with a 2-1/2# hammer. Machining is an option, but that is a lot of waste. Seems someone once said,,, " just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

Lol, I noticed this type of strange thangs in all three addy's I posted. Thats not what I found for the definition of liquidus. And thanks for correcting my spelling! I did find conflicting definitions that support you. However, following the golden rule of ask ten and take the consensus, it seems liquidus is the max temp a solid can exist and the minimum temp at which a liquid can exist. I take this to mean both exist at the same time. Call it slush. Thomas, it doesnt appear to be a term found in the phase change charts for ferrous metals, but this "slush" state does exist. Its the transition between two states and, as best I can figure, is the reason for holding our steels at a specific temp for a particular amount of time. First its one, then both states exist, then it becomes the other. So, perhaps a FW at a red heat is a pure solid phase weld and the other a slushy mix where two liquids flow together. And with that fishy statement, 3 daze is all we can stand.